Another newbie with a problem - long story

[Stormchaser]

So Storm.... what the heck happened last night?!

Sorry bout that, between the "talk" and getting jammed at work, I didn't have much time to respond, so here goes:

So we go to out to have a small dinner. She begins by talking about her entire day, but its not a natural conversation. She's doing a lot of "....uh...." and ".....um....; all the time I'm just listening. I was getting the vibe that she'd rather talk about other things because I really wasn't engaging her in the typical "how-was-your-day" talk.

Then there's this awkward 2 minute silence. I break the ice by saying, "you called me today and wanted to talk about us. Ok, we're here now, lets talk about it."

She said (I'm going to paraphrase here): She's happy with the status quo right now. That she loves me, there's no other guy, there's no other woman, nothing like that. Her life is idyllic, two wonderful kids, house, we both have good jobs. That this last argument did shake her foundations a bit because she didn't like the unusually cold distance I was showing afterwards.

Usually, our typical fights about anything blow over later, some dumb words are said, apologies are made, and we move on.

She continued: This time, the arguments are focusing on the physical relationship and they're becoming harder and harder to move on from.

At this point, I'm thankful because she definitely sees the pattern, which is making me feel a little better.

She went on to say that she really has no idea why she isn't into it anymore. And she admitted that when we ARE in a groove, its great, but there's always something to sidetrack and distract and then we have that gap again. She thought aloud about the job, because its mostly night shift, she hates that she's at work when she could be home doing the stuff I do, i.e. homework, cleaning, dinner, etc. That having two days a week off, but they're not consecutive, is really draining on her, especially when she's off a day and she still gets phone calls related to work. That being a supervisor isn't all its cracked up to be; dealing with a staff that can't follow directions to dealing with promising teens that once are hired, are the laziest bunch of people you can imagine.

But she loves her job. She just wishes it was more typical, 9-5 deal with the weekends off. She wants to hold on until spring, when that finally is available to her, so she really doesn't want to give it up now after all these years.

I start to sympathize, but then she says something that really pissed me off. She says, that the job isn't the only thing. That there were things in the past about me that have really turned her off. That I got into a groove of not opening the doors for her, being a homebody, not wanting to do anything with her sisters family, having an anxiety disorder that prevented me from going anywhere - these things have really made her feel as if she's settled for less, that this is all there is in the relationship and she's having to accept it as it is.

Instead of flying off the handle, I told her I needed a minute or two to think. Before reading "No More Mr Nice Guy", I think I would've started to cry, or beg for her to give me another chance, sworn to become a better man, blah, blah. But instead of going that route, I gave myself enough time to think about what to say without becoming angry.

Continued in the next post.

[Stormchaser]

I said to her that I remember a month ago when she said how proud she was of me for being gentlemenly, especially the time I sent a massive bouquet of flowers to her job for our anniversary. Actually, how I ALWAYS send anniversary flowers to work. And she DID tell me during that same conversation that that she has found me more attractive since I've concentrated on doing those things she says turns her on, such as opening doors, sending cutesy emails and texts, listening without giving my opinion.....

I didn't say this to be smug...but I was wondering where she was coming from. She paused and said...you're right. Followed by more silence.

On that same vein, I said that since therapy my anxiety disorder is a thing of the past. I am completely cured of panic attacks as evidenced by our last several years together, when we went to Disney, numerous small trips to amusement parks and beaches, camping up and down the coast. Again, I'm not sure where she's coming from, although the anxiety was prevalent early on in the marriage, its been gone the last several years. I told her I wasn't trying to be a dick about this, but I just don't understand where she came from and if she could tell me why she brought it up.

She surprised me by saying that she didn't know why she brought it up, that maybe she was looking for something to bitch about but when she thinks about it, I made good points and then added that she really can't blame me for not wanting to hang around her sister because she's (sister) is bipolar and has massive mood swings, which can drive anyone crazy. It has nothing to do with not wanting to visit, it has EVERYTHING to do with not wanting to deal with someone who is lovey dovey one minute and drops the F bomb repeatedly the next.

I was really expecting some kind of resistance, but being calm and discussing things rationally must've made some kind of impact. Then I brought up the situation Corri mentioned, about the friends she has and spending time this them is more important than quality time with me, and how maybe subconsciously that makes me appear needy, then she runs some more, then I complain more, then she runs SOME more....she said it doesn't make me look needy, but that it makes me look, in her mind, like a guy that complains that he "doesn't get any".

Continued next post

[Corri]

Let me guess. You write TV Mini-Series scripts for a living... you must, for you seem to know exactly where to end the story with the "to be continued..." dangler that will guarantee the audience returns for the next episode...

tap, tap, tap

[Stormchaser]

I told her its not about "getting any". Its about a sexual release, an opportunity to become one with her. I said some things that I really think, after all this time together, she never knew. That I actually NEED sex, almost as much as I need food and water. I WANT to feel that closeness because it makes those bumps in the marriage more manageable.

She then said whats in it for her? Sure, its easy in theory to say that she'll spend 10 minutes 2x a week with me, but what if she's not up for it? Where is her payoff? She'll just feel like she's being used for sex and then be more frustrated.

This was a good question, and I hope I gave the right response. I told her the payoff would be incredible. That she would have a husband that is completely satisfied and not pent up and frustrated. A husband who calls and texts and emails because he WANTS to, without any ulterior motive (that was one of her concerns, that I do things just to get sex, not out of genuine love). Each time doesn't have to be a full blown, rock your socks off session with lots of oral sex and different positions - no pressure at all, just some good old fashioned loving. A healthy sexual connection. Leave the kinky wild sex for the weekends. And for tonight, I want to be together sexually.

And that was it. I didn't say anything else. She nodded then started to cry. Whoa, this caught me completely off guard - she told me that originally she thought I was really jealous of her working her way up through her company and thought I was resentful because I'm kinda stagnant where I am. Its not that I'm completely stagnant; I'm unwilling to relocate halfway across the country for a promotion. But she has flown through the ranks in the last 3 years and deep down thought I held some deep feelings of bitterness towards her rapid advancement.

There is nothing like this and I reassured her - that the opposite is true, that I'm extremely proud of her for finally getting a job that she has wanted her entire youth and now has it and likes it - not many people can say that, a lot of us are stuck in jobs we hate but have to do anyway.

Soon after, we wound up going home. Talked to the kids and put them to bed, did some mom and dad chit chat ourselves and headed upstairs and got ready ourselves. And yes, had a great sex session that went well past 10 minutes.

So, lets hope this is the start of something good.

[Stormchaser]

Let me guess. You write TV Mini-Series scripts for a living... you must, for you seem to know exactly where to end the story with the "to be continued..." dangler that will guarantee the audience returns for the next episode...

tap, tap, tap

Actually, I'm worried everything I've typed will disappear with the blink of an eye - has happened before when I had a nice manuscript written and the power blinked, resetting the computer. I'd hate to say, "I had this long, great story written here, but the power went out and I forgot everything I wrote".

[Exiled]

Actually, I'm worried everything I've typed will disappear with the blink of an eye -

Have you considered typing it up offline (using Word, Wordpad, Notepad, whatever; save often and/or use autosave). Then simply cut/paste it here when your done?

[Stormchaser]

Storm,

I think this is a great opportunity for you and I am excited for you. However, I would temper it with one thought and that is, if your wife is like my wife, and by the sounds of it there are some freaky-close similarities, then she will try to go to "quick-fix" mode. This will allow her to assuage her guilt or other realizations that she has probably had lately that you may be right and she may at least partially at fault. When we have had these discussions, they have usually ended with her buying in and making agreements about what the future will look like, a few days or weeks or change and she then gets into a "my work here is done" mode.

Happy New Year!!

An update: I quoted PF because almost a month later, and he was right. There was an initial surge of lovemaking - the week of this posting was 3x, the next week was 2x. Things were going nice and smooth. But, I began to notice the pattern re-emerging, so I attributed that to the stress of the upcoming holidays. We were both off that holiday week, so I figured once xmas passed, we could have some down time and time to ourselves. The weekend before xmas, she went out with some girlfriends and actually initiated some wild, incredible mind blowing sex - after a few glasses of wine, though.

The week we were off together, I started picking up little subtle things that she's always done in the past. If I were to initiate lovemaking, the excuses would start - her stomach hurt, her head was sore, her back was stiff. What she started doing now was mentioning all these things prior to coming to bed, so if I would initiate, she would say, "I told you earlier my stomach/back/head/malady of the day was sore"...back to frustration city.

We had plans for the New Years to go out with another couple thats about 10 years younger than us, single, no responsibilities. We've gone out with them in the past and they are genuinely a fun couple to be around, except they love staying out late, we're talking 2-3AM. I'm getting a bit too old for such late nights, even on the weekends...I'm just too tired at that time and I love getting up early, even if I don't have plans the next day. Its rare to get a sitter to spend the night, but NYE we managed to find someone to sleep over.

So before we're going out, she's in the bedroom getting ready and I'm sitting there in bed reading SSM. I'm a little pissed already, because I don't trust the sitter the wife got, and I'm thinking another night of W wanting a few drinks to get loose with me again. I have mentioned that I don't mind the few drinks, as long as it mixed with some sober times. But the sober times were starting to dry up again. W sees me reading the book and says how bothered she is by me reading this before going out.

I tell her I'm a little bothered too, because it seems we're falling into the same pattern as before, and I'm trying to figure out how to stop it. She then goes ballistic, saying that we're not sex starved, how her father divorced his 2nd wife because they hadn't had sex in 2 years, and is the book telling me that there's some kind of calendar or imaginary number in my head that we should adhere to. And why am I counting, and why of all nights, am I expecting her not to have a glass of wine or two?

This starts the yellfest, back and forth, she calls our friends and cancels our night out. After an hour, things calm down and we try to talk rationally - we decide to just go out, try to make something out of the night anyway. We actually are civilized and manage to enjoy the NYE festivities. We call home and the baby sitter is not answering, either her cell or the home line. We tried for a good 15 minutes and now I'm getting a bit worried. The W is telling me to not worry about it, just have a good time, they're probably asleep. I finally manage to get ahold of her, she WAS sound asleep (both of them were), but I was angry that she took so long to answer a phone. Anyway, I manage to calm down and its 12:45 and the young couple we're with decide to bar hop. We hit the next club and by now I'm starting to fall asleep. Its 1AM and I'm yawning like crazy, I'm leaning against the wall, showing zero interest in whats going on. My W says, "get the car, we're leaving". I pick her up and she goes on to say how sad she is, how bored I looked at the club and why can't I enjoy the night with her? Why couldn't I not worry about the sitter, why didn't I prep my hair the way she liked, why did I have to look so bored at this other club...when I tried to tell her I don't enjoy staying out past 1AM and that I was worried, she interrupted me and said, "ALL I HEAR IS I, I, I...ITS ALL ABOUT YOU TONIGHT, YOUR LACK OF SEX, YOUR UNWILLINGNESS TO STAY OUT WITH FRIENDS..."

Back and forth, all the way home. Today we woke up and just talked in bed for about an hour. She wants us to go to counseling immediately, which I'm in favor of...I've pressed for that in the past and nothing happened, so now its pretty obvious we need some kind of mediation. We talked about what was important to her last night: How I looked and acted. She said its very important to her for her husband to look nice, take the effort to dress nice, not just throw on jeans and sneakers. I talked about what was important to me, the closeness of a sexual intimate relationship. We both saw that those things that are important to US aren't important to the other. I really don't care too much about how I look, since others we go out with wear tshirts and torn jeans, and she really doesn't think that having regular sex with me makes any difference to the marriage and my feelings.

So thats where it stands now - we're civil, but the black cloud is there.

Any advice? Pointers? Smacks on the head for me reading the book before going out?

[**zuzu**]

Hmm...it seems that she is just ultra defensive that you blame her and she's not about to take it. Her role in her work makes it hard for her to be blamed for anything in her personal life. I hate to reiterate what she has said to you, but she looks like she is LOOKING FOR reasons to be down about you. He is disenchanted. So what? It is not a death sentence for you guys. It CAN turn around. I don't think these ups and downs are so uncommon in marriages. I am a bit short on what advice to give though. The cooking and cleaning would be AWESOME for me though! lol!

TRY to not ACCUSE her of anything. Oh, and I would be a little put off at the title of the book if I were the LD and not initiating fixing things. I love reading self improvement books, but when my husband feels that I am reading one to "fix" him, he gets very defensive as well.

You were just feeling frustrated and looking for support/answers. You felt JUSTIFIED in reading it in front of her, even though maybe a part of you felt it probably would not be well received by her. Would you agree or no?

[Stormchaser]

You were just feeling frustrated and looking for support/answers. You felt JUSTIFIED in reading it in front of her, even though maybe a part of you felt it probably would not be well received by her. Would you agree or no?

Yeah, you're right. I probably was trying to push a button in opening up the book in front of her. There are times when I'm really frustrated and just do dumbass things.

I tried a little something different today - Its going on week 3 of no sex, and I'm feeling really frustrated today. She was gushing to her sister on the phone about how excited she is about us going to Niagara Falls for our anniversary in March. A part of me wanted to just tell her to forget the trip, why bother going since we'll just sleep apart...my internal mind was racing with all kinds of accusatory stuff. But, after the phone call, I tried to be as calm as possible. I simply said that I'd like to go to the Falls without this black cloud hanging over us, how I'd hate for any friction to ruin this nice trip. She thought about it and actually agreed, that it would be great to start talking to someone as soon as we can.

I was initially set on finding someone that takes our insurance - but its pretty difficult. I'm glad I read some of Harley's stuff about counseling, though. Its a hell of a lot cheaper than a divorce. Even without mediation and if it went uncontested, I'd be shelling out thousands for a lawyer. Last time I checked, a marriage counselor is cheaper per hour than a lawyer.

As a post note, I'm still frustrated. Very difficult for me to keep from salivating while she's prancing around the house a nice tight workout outfit - I can look but I cannot touch.

[Stormchaser]

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