We did get into a discussion a few months ago on someone's thread where things got really heated, (not between you and me but between you and someone else), and I remember it being quite scary, frightening and off putting for other posters - esp newbies.( I'm not sure but I think it had something to do with one of Cinder's threads when she was spinning badly).
I understand completely your worries regarding FW's posts. I myself can see possible problems ahead - it is hard enough to pull a M back together again without lots of others all adding their two pennies worth and asking lots of questions. No two situations are the same and there are some very desparate people on these boards seeking answers BUT I do believe that they can see that BFM and FW's sitch is theirs and their's alone. If posting like this helps FW, (even if it massages his ego possibly at the same time), then so be it.
Imp - I have utmost respect for you and I know you see things with great clarity, but sometimes you do need to let others make their own mistakes, (or not as the case may be). FW obviously feels he is a high achiever and has a lot to offer - I get the feeling he is treating the repair of his M in the same way as he has other things in his life; let time see if that is true without raining on his parade. That's just MHO anways.
I think sometimes when you write you do not fully appreciate quite how strongly you may come across.
I think Bworl's post answers what I am trying to say. Saffie
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
FW obviously feels he is a high achiever and has a lot to offer - I get the feeling he is treating the repair of his M in the same way as he has other things in his life
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If posting like this helps FW, (even if it massages his ego possibly at the same time), then so be it.
Actually, I see the exact same thing. And that is why I said what I did. His old thinking is exactly what got him where he is. And until that changes, nothing will get fixed.
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I remember it being quite scary, frightening and off putting for other posters - esp newbies
One of the the problem is that we have newbies and veterns together. How do you seperate the messages. I try to stick to Dbing. Michele is very clear about who has to change. And since we can't do anything about the MLC/WAS, that leaves only one person. And as is, the offended party is the one who has to change their approach.
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No two situations are the same and there are some very desparate people on these boards seeking answers BUT I do believe that they can see that BFM and FW's sitch is theirs and their's alone
I definitely agree that no two situations are the same which is I why I treat everyone of them differently. The real problem I find is that everyone wants to treat them the same. People keep falling back on the same tired things. I mean when someone who has been around for 7-8 years is still saying things like the OW/OM is juts a temporary fix, there is a problem.
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I think sometimes when you write you do not fully appreciate quite how strongly you may come across
saffie, when I read something, I just write. I don't want a filter. When it is something that strikes me as odd, I generally go back and read every post that the person has written and I ignore what others have said because I don't want that filter to get in the way of my first impression. And when I think I may be harsh, I do two things. I reread both their posts my post and I have a couple people who I ask if I was missing something. Also, I have had more than a few people who have come back to me and said that I was the only person who was willing to tell them things in no uncertain terms and they thanked me for it. That is what drives me.
As for newbies, when I post directly to them, I always make sure to tell (or at least try) them I understand how they feel. And one of the big problems is that too many fuel the fire. When my bomb hit, the first person I had to change was me. I didn't need the book to tell me that. I also wonder how many people really have read the book.
And back to FW for a second, I see people asking hinm to read theior threads. This is not good. You can't have clueless people trying to lead clueless people.
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I know you see things with great clarity, but sometimes you do need to let others make their own mistakes
But this is a tough one. Yes, people make mistakes. But I thought part of the reason for the board was to help other not to make the same mistakes that I did. For example, if you had never seen a hot stove before, would I let you touch the heating element. No. Same thing here. I don't want people to touch the heating element. As for my clarity, I know it came from being far removed from the emotional turmoil and from liastening to those who have been there. One of the first person I sought out was an old friend who had been devastated by a divorce but who found his way back. People on the board spend too much time listening to people who are in the same situation as they are. Nop help at all.
For example, if you had never seen a hot stove before, would I let you touch the heating element. No.
I agree with this in principle - but if you don't understand what 'hot' is you have to learn. As a parent you know this. You try to avoid pain for others if you can but how do you ever know what 'hot' is until you have felt it?
Imp, I think we are on the same page here but sometimes, try as you might, you can't stop a train crashing. Hopefully it won't, but the only people who can stop this particular one crashing are BFM and FW. I have been 'reconciled' with my H for over 17 months - it gets so hard. I think your caution is well advised - whether it be MLC, WAS or a S having an A - it's all just variations on a theme of betrayal. Like you I believe success is not whether or not the M continues but whether the parties concerned grow and learn and come out better and stronger people. For the moment I personally believe BFM and FW should be allowed to enjoy this honeymoon period and get a chance to bank their fluffy cloud so they can withdraw it and look back on it to help them when the darker clouds come along.
I don't want to rain on their parade.
As I said In my previous post, I think your points have been made adequately but perhaps more tactfully and eloquently by Bworl.( I do appreciate that post came after yours though).
Saffie
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
I have to agree with Saffie about your post to FW being insulting. You flat out called him an egotist. It is not nice to call people names. I was taken aback when I saw that on his thread. I do believe that we are all wise to temper our remarks to each other, rather than risk offending.
Yes, Sara. That is exactly what i said. Do you know that many years ago someone on this same board called me an @$$hole. That wasn't nice either. I could have chosen to get mad, but I didn't I chose to examine the reason the person said so. I am glad this person cared enough about me to risk offending me.
So yes, Sara, I do risk offending. The tempered remarks around here never seem to have much of an effect.
I'll keep that in mind IMP the next time you insult me. We might as well agree to disagree. I will not change my belief that verbally beating up the people on this board is destructive. And I see that I will not convince you of my opinion. Since neither of us is censored by the moderators, I guess we are both free to keep posting in our own styles.
I think that is rude and ugly talk and I would chastise the person who said it. I do not believe that perpetuating bad behavior is a solution to past bad behavior.
Not to pat myself on the back, but I believe that the ability to put aside past hurts and deal with people nicely in the present and the future is the reason that my husband and I were able to reconcile. As long as old wounds are licked, we never move forward to solving our problems. It is a quality that many people on this board would do well to cultivate.
Ouch. I felt that one Sara - that felt like a rebuke to me!!!!! I wish I could be nice to OW but I just can't be.
Imp - you are even in that you can take the strong comments and learn from them aswell as dish them out. Some people cannot.
I believe you will be here giving out good advice to people long after many of us have moved on - but remember - there may be times when if you are not careful you will stop this place being a safe haven. I do realise that you have offered to not post to people at times when they have found your advice 'strong' and in nearly every case that person has come back to you and thanked you - eventually.
I was hoping you would reply to my comment about not knowing what 'hot' is until you have actually felt it for ones self.
Saffie
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
Well, Sara, guess what? While initially feeling the sting, she took a step back and said, you know what, that person is right. I am pathetic and did something about it. You see, Sara (and saffie), people who have an ability to look inside themselves are inclined to take harsh criticism and make a change in their lives. People who say stupid things like 'bite me' expose themselves for the frauds they are.
