WAW staying, I'm leaving to give her space..

[Jeff223]

Nice list.

The hardest thing you will learn here Jab is to stop talking. It is natural to think that we need to sit down and talk, reason, and communicate, and that will solve our problems. But it does not work. Why? Because we are running on emotion.

Have you not talked before? Did things improve? Things got worse I bet.

With your list, she will sit and listen and then most likely attack you. "You said you were moving out, you lied, I will never trust you again". How will you respond without attacking back?

I only leased apt to help alleviate her stress, give her some alone time (as she requested) for DUI sentencing and 2) (as she requested) alleviate her burden of driving me to work all the time until I resolve my transportation issue.

All true, but she already knows that.

Tell her she is in "stress" is negative.

Reminding her she will not accept the "burden" of driving you is negative. It is attacking her pride.

Remind her about the DUI? Not a good idea.

Telling her you are doing things b/c she "requested" sounds manipulative, attacking her pride again and makes you appear weak.

When the W is seriously pulling away, reassurance of a direct, verbal kind never work, b/c you are telling her over and over again how desperately you need her. EVERY time you talk, or write a letter, you are telling her that she is wrong and that you are right; that you are trying to change her.

That is not attractive. That is only feeding her desire for D.

See where I am going here?

I'm basically telling her that this is NOT a move out, just a 'time out'. Essentially, I am thinking of this as equivalent to a 'business trip'.

Don't sit her down and talk. Show her instead. Act happy about this move (or at least act as if). Show her you are doing it for YOU. Don't try to justify it. Say as little as possible. Set up the spare bedroom so she knows you will be back on weekends. Then just do it.

And if you do move, don't make the mistake I did: staying all alone thinking about her. Instead, use your time alone to work on you, GAL, enjoy others.

Learn to like yourself, be happy without her, agree and support her best you can without attacking her pride - that will make you attractive again.

Strength and Honor.

[jab]

Jeff,

great advice, I will do my best. What you are suggesting is what I plan to do, I don't really plan on sitting down and having a long discussion about it. I plan on saying as little as possible to get my point across and then STFU. I see what you are saying how I have to be very careful with how I word things. If she starts attacking, I plan on using the mantra 'I am doing what I have to do, you do what you have to do to make you happy' and then STFU and PMA.

W already knows that I plan to be back on weekends, it was an agreement for the kids but we need to put our agreements in writing if I go, I know that, C suggested that as well.

My spare bedroom when I return will be 'bunking' with my son. It's really the only choice I have at the moment.

I really think me living seperately in the apt for 60 days (IHD)will work out best, but she has to know that I plan on returning. I can't leave the agreement like it is now.

[COG]

Jab,

I love your attitude and open mind. Don't ask me why, but AmyC assembled the "A-Team" for ya. Every sitch is different. Look for the subtle signs and information that connect with your sitch and pray like crazy!

To move out, or not to move out, that's the question? But I think there's a bigger question here.

Can you love your W unconditionally as defined in 1 Corithians: 13?

She is not IL with you right now. She's done with you for the time being. It may take YEARS for her heart to change.

Can you really handle staying at home?

Will you be able to give her the space she needs or will you fuel the fire of resentment within her?

Can you avoid the temptation to bring up the R, ask her how she feels about things, ask her what she wants?

Here's some news for ya. She hates the R, she wants out, she feels like crap because her family is breaking up, she's angry because you've been the dufus and now she looks like the bad guy, and she doesn't know what she ever saw in you. She may waffle a little, but generally she's going to feel this way for a long time.

Do you have the courage to face her reality every day, and still keep joy in your face, freindship on your tongue, and peace in your heart?

Did you just play the move out card to see if she'd come crawling back, or beg you to stay?

I moved out at my W's request. I think it was the right thing for us because I was driving her friggin crazy. Couldn't just leave things alone. I was constantly starting conversations about our R. Pressuring, guilting, never let things rest. We were both miserable and I hadn't found DB yet.

We were separated for four years, but we lived within a mile of each other. Kids went back and forth. We never really had an agreement about dating, didn't really discuss it much. But we both knew where it would lead so niether of us went there. Friendship in group settings definately, but not much of the one on one stuff. We did have an agreement to be honest about it if it did happen though.

I actually did date a gal once, after about a year or two of being separated. I took her to an Andrea Boccelli concert. W was being so nasty to me I had just had enough. I told her about it ahead of time and everything. I'll never forget the look on her face as I left the kids soccer game for my date. It was priceless. BUT, within a couple of weeks of that, she went to a concert on a "friendly date" with a recently D male friend of hers. AARGH!, tit for tat. So remember, what goes around comes around.

Keep focused on YOU my brother. If you think dating is right for you then go ahead and do it, but do not judge or attempt to control your W. Learn how to love her for who she is, how she feels, what she does, and where she is. Love her as her creator loves her. Forgive her, let her go. Do not attempt to control her, improve her, help her, or guide her. Leave all that to her and her God.

There may come time/challenges when you'll have to decide if you can accept her actions and stay with her, or not. But make that choice based on the reality of who she is, not on the hope of transforming her what you want her to be. She should know what your boundaries are, but she should not be coerced, manipulated, begged, or controlled by YOU to follow them. Leave that up to her and her God.

Ideally, unphased by her, but focused on YOUR own healing, growth and maturity.

God Bless The Struggle!

Love,

COG

[Jeff223]

Excellent. This is difficult and COG gave you some great advice about unconditional love. How to put OUR pride aside and support theirs. Hard, hard, hard.

I came on strong about the move but I support your decision. Don't get me wrong, the move will have advantages. Mine did. It does take off some of the stress. Only the disadvantages outweighed the advantages in my case; and the legal fallout was something I failed to consider.

And please understand I do not mean to stop talking to her. You read about "going dark" here a lot. It works for some but I tried it and I did not like it. Better to keep the communication going if you can.

But it is important to make each interaction a positive one. Happy talk, not R-talk.

Do set boundaries, but don't explain them. She needs to understand that you will be bunking with your son on weekends. That is not open to discussion. Just do it. And all the other conditions for the move should be understood, as you said. But leave it at that; no need to justify your position.

With unconditional love you give when you can. Give a little, give a lot. Agree with her whenever you can. Walk away when you disagree. Share your feelings - "I feel" statements rather than "you" statements. Empathize when you can. See things from her viewpoint.

You have a lot going for you. Expect her attitude to get worse (re-read COG above). There is something in her now that HAS to pull away and she is in love with her negative feelings about you and the R. She needs fuel to feed those feelings. Just try not to give her YOUR fuel.

Focus your fuel on you and becoming the man again that she once fell in love with.

You are doing well. I admire you.

[jab]

COG,

I love your attitude and open mind. Don't ask me why, but AmyC assembled the "A-Team" for ya.

That, I believe, is divine intervention, my friend. I don't know why either but I truly believe that I have a 'guardian angel'. There have been signs lately in other forms that I cannot explain, but I know I am not alone in this.

I moved out at my W's request. I think it was the right thing for us because I was driving her friggin crazy. Couldn't just leave things alone. I was constantly starting conversations about our R. Pressuring, guilting, never let things rest. We were both miserable and I hadn't found DB yet.

This is the original reason why I agreed to move out. Since then, I have found DB, gotten a grip & realized what I was doing wrong, what I should be doing, and what I am truly capable of. I didn't think I could do it at first, but know I can now. I do care very deeply about how she feels and her needs.

As far as your other questions, my answer is 'yes' I can do it.
I'm not sure where my sitch will end up but I love her with all my heart, always did, always will. I am already accepting and forgiving what I thought I NEVER would be able to accept and forgive. If I get to the point where I don't think I can, I'll re-evaluate.

I'm going to quote what I said in AA last meeting:
"I believe this is happening for a 'reason' and good will come out of it no matter what happens. I believe that strength comes through suffering, and I'll be one strong motherf***** after all this is over, that's for sure. I've been weak too long."

There may come time/challenges when you'll have to decide if you can accept her actions and stay with her, or not. But make that choice based on the reality of who she is, not on the hope of transforming her what you want her to be. She should know what your boundaries are, but she should not be coerced, manipulated, begged, or controlled by YOU to follow them. Leave that up to her and her God.

Pray for me. Give me strength to do God's will.

[COG]

Jab,

This struggle you are in is very much a spiritual battle. There are forces waging war against your M, and they are very devious. Fear, worry, selfishness, anger, jealousy, resentment, need to control, are all used against you, to manipulate you. Beware when any of these factors are influencing your actions.

I believe that strength comes through suffering, and I'll be one strong motherf***** after all this is over, that's for sure.

You're right on my brother. It's a transformation, and trasformation is never quick, never easy. You will suffer, and many parts of you will/must die, but when the battle is over you will reap the harvest of blessings, no matter how you M turns out.

Be prepared for when the lion charges. You're alone, on foot, counting flowers, and BAM! Out of nowhere she charges, a snarling blur of fangs and fur. Will you run, or will you stand?

You're in the kitchen, your W's cell phone rings, and she leaves the room to answer it. Will you run or will you stand? Will you keep your cool, ignore it, allow her the freedom of her life, or will you run to jealousy, anger, and resentment?

This is a torturous journey you are embarking on my brother. Dangerous, frightening, and completely unknown.

Pray for me. Give me strength to do God's will.

Absolutely my brother. The deeper connection you can develop with God, the stronger you will become. The closer to God you get, the closer you get to your W and family.

You already have the strength, courage, and faith that it takes to survive this. It's up to you how you use them.

God Bless,

COG

[Jack_Three_Beans]

You're right on my brother. It's a transformation, and trasformation is never quick, never easy. You will suffer, and many parts of you will/must die, but when the battle is over you will reap the harvest of blessings, no matter how you M turns out.

Be prepared for when the lion charges. You're alone, on foot, counting flowers, and BAM! Out of nowhere she charges, a snarling blur of fangs and fur. Will you run, or will you stand?

You're in the kitchen, your W's cell phone rings, and she leaves the room to answer it. Will you run or will you stand? Will you keep your cool, ignore it, allow her the freedom of her life, or will you run to jealousy, anger, and resentment?

This is a torturous journey you are embarking on my brother. Dangerous, frightening, and completely unknown.

Cog's words sound pretty, and sound easy.
You have no idea yet, he chose his words very very carefully.
You going to have to become very very good at not getting angry, not getting upset, of patience and temperment.

Sadly, This is going to test your committment to AA.
Do not fail in that regard. Do not prove your wife's fears valid, that I believe will be the nail in your coffin, no matter how hard it gets, if you do that, YOU will be the one hammering it in.

God can give you the strength and show you the path, but you have to walk it, and that strength, is usually just enough. If it was a shield against temptation then we would lack free will and hell would be empty.

[jab]

Well I told her that I planned on coming back and she blew a gasket. Now she says there is NO chance for us. She took what I said completely wrong. Maybe I didn't STFU enough, I don't know. I expressed that I never stated that I wasn't going to leave for awhile, but I am planning on coming back home. She took everything I said as trying to control her no matter how she feels about things. I think I may have blew it.

[AmyC]

Pray for me. Give me strength to do God's will.

Can't do that just yet because you first need the humility which comes from being broken.
There you find out who you are & what His Will is for you and your family - AND WHY.
Then you're not just reading it in the Bible and hoping it applies to you.
There you will learn and then you will know that you know that you know.

There you gain the strength to stand.

It's called the valley.

And mostly you will just need the strength to shut up.
Trust me on that one.

[jab]

Update,

W just called me back. Obviously, W is on the fence about D but has alot of resentment, anger, distrust. W apologized for blowing up, W says she needs some space, I gotta give her some breathing room, yada, yada, yada. W doesn't trust me, yada, yada, yada. After conversation, W sounded a little better. I told her it wasn't my intention to control her, I am/will give her some breathing room, I'm not trying to accuse her. I'm trying to do the right thing.

W said she's 90% sure that our R/M is unfixable, not 100%.

W said she want someone to be 'into her', be happy to see her, want to be involved with her, etc....

I said, everything you stated, I want to give you & can now give you.

W said, you haven't shown it in years, it doesn't matter.

I said, I know I haven't and that was wrong. I'm becoming a better person and if I have the opportunity to I can show you what I'm capable of.

W stated, she doesn't believe it.

I stated, I understand why you don't believe it, but I can.

W asked 'even if I don't want you back?'

I stated, "I'm NEVER going to be in this situation in my life ever again. I'm NEVER going to have arguments over my drinking, getting drunk, not actively participating in my partner's life, not being communicative and loving. I'll NEVER let this happen to me again! Yes, even if you don't want me back. I NEED to improve myself for ME! I want to be able to have a healthy relationship with someone, I hope someday it can be you!"

W had to go into work so the call ended. W sounded a little better. Basically, tonight was a 'bust' but at least not a failure.

Whew, I feel like I was drowning for a moment and just got a lung of air again. Still bobbing up and down in the water and the waves are huge! Someone throw me a lifejacket!