Calling All Cats :)

[whapu]

Cat,
I have been thinking of you...no time to really relate anything...might try to pop in later to catch up. "Spamalot" for the holidays??? perfect...I think that is the right speed for your H and yourself by the mere glimpse I had in your thread...I popin later hopefully.... peace

[cat03]

hey stranger)))))))))))))))))))) missed seing you here! glad you came over to paw over my whiny thread, lol, I think a lot of the past posts you've written me, how they've helped me to let go. I do get my bouts of sadness, but God conquered the fear for me and for that I'm grateful.

[saffie]

Cat,

CBT therapists can be VERY good. See if you can find one your H likes.

Saffie

[cat03]

just journaling, had a bad argument with H, he said some pretty awful things, how I'm hoping for us to get back together so I can tear into him, that I want only to control him, etc etc, it all came about because for the past two days I came home to a relatively messy place, I had a long commute both days, and I ended up cleaning up, we had a talk. He basically doesn't care about the house and I'm not asking for a spotless place (it is far from it now) just that he'd be in charge of having the kids picking up stuff they drop and keep it the way I left it in the am.
Long story short, tempers flared 1)because he's very nervous about a test he'll be taking tonight and his sgt jerked him around during his days off 2) because when accosed he says the first thing that come to his head, just the product of his fatalistic and negative views of people in general.

Had a good cry,, after a few texts he call to say how he screwed up by saying those things and that he shoot off his mouth.

He keeps repeating over and over how he doesn't know how to make things better between us, has no earthly clue what to do and that what he is doing isn't enough (well, IMO not doing much at all really towards real reconciliation). His work still consumes his best effords, and sadly, even that is not going great, the sgt hates him and makes his life a living heck when he can, he is the one who almost got him kicked out.

Phew, feel better now, we've talked a few times again, ok, so I'm adding that to the positive things he does, he won't let us stew on an argument and be mad for long, he calls me until we can talk decent.

Well, hope you had a better day

[LoginName]

Hi Cat,
Sounds kind of positive. You had an argument, you talked later, he talked later, and you're not divorced. That is all good, right? If you and he were totally "reconciled" and in a "normal" marriage, it would be the same, wouldn't it?

I know you were just journaling, and we all feel this way at times, but when you say
"well, IMO not doing much at all really towards real reconciliation"
it sounds like you have expectations on what he should do and how he should act.

I don't think that's helpful. It may be fair, but not helpful. If you are going to have expecations, like on what he should do to reconcile with you, I think you should make sure he knows what those expectations are upfront; don't make him guess, fail for guessing wrong.

If you do have expecations, you should really examine them and know what they are and if they are really, actually, important to you. If they are important, than stick to them, even if it means separating. If it turns out they aren't, then let them go.

Here's an idea. Don't think about reconciling. You are reconciled. Now stop waiting for him, or you even, to do something,or for a sign or anything else. Just get on with life and your relationship. Every moment, live it. Decide each moment what you want to do and do it for yourself - not to change him, not to bring about changes in the future, just right now. Ease up on yourself and him. No expecations.

I think some expecations, if expressed, are reasonable.You have a right to be treated with respect. You should expect that. If you don't get it, then you have to make a choice on what to do about it. That's basic, and maybe about it. No expectations, minimal expectations.

Yeah, he's got it tough right now: job and all. It's HIS issues and troubles. You can't fix his life. You can't control it. Release it. Yes, it's sad. I feel sorry for him, I can empathize, and I'm sure you do much more than me, but you can't do anything. Let it go. He'll figure it out, or he won't. Detach some more.

Detaching really doesn't mean not to love or to grow apart - or it doesn't have to. You can still love him totally, but his problems aren't yours and can't be.

It's a real fear of the spouse that nothing they do will work and they can never make the M/R better - they can't fix it. Let him know there is nothing to fix. He's off the hook. You're OK.

As for the mess in the house - that's a tough one. When people live together, they have to accomodate each other some. Can you let it go to an extent? Can you live with a messier house? If he won't or can't comprimise on this, what is your fall back plan, what are your options? Divorce? I think if you really can't live with a mess,or the toilet seat left up, or the towel left on the floor, whatever, and he can't or won't change, then divorce, even over something that small, is the right choice. But can you live with it?

I've heard this called a BATNA; Best Alternative To Negotiated Agreement. In other words, when you are negotiating, you need to know from the start what your limits are and what you will do if you can't reach an agreement.

I guess this all comes down to you. Let go of what you can't control. Be in charge of your own life, controling what you can. Expectations of others, whom you can't control, lead to dissapointment.

Make sense?

[cat03]

I have told him what my expectations were, we've talked about them, but we always go back to the same, as if nothing was said, mostly because he says he isnt' ready to be affectionate in any ways with me (will receive hugs kisses but wont' give any if I dont' do it, none at all, this is month 4 of him sleeping downstairs).
It's always the same, no matter what is said he always says "but I dont' know what to do, how to behave" I reminded him today how considerate and attentive he was when we were dating, he said "well, after a while that stopped working" and "I don't remember how I felt back then", like his mind is wiped off clean of how to court or treat a woman.

I feel that all we talk about is his job, how stressful is, what he does/doesnt do, pretty much 90% of the time, 7% we talk kids 2% my job and 1% about us, if at all.

I have let go of lots of things around the home, the problem is that I do 99.5% of the household chores, all homework and kid related work and I wish he'd chip in, he has 2, count them, 2 chores to do during of his 3days off: vacuum basemant *once a week* and do the dishes (we use disposables btw), and half the time they aren't done. Some weeks are tougher than others, on his tough weeks I dont' even bring up his chores, I do them.
It's more about him being considerate than about a messy house, he forgets I too have a full time job, it's a desk job but come on, I need a break too.

He tries some days, but most times he seems despondent and aloof. I am counting on our C sessions and his IC sessions, we'll see how things go. We both agreed, he brought it up actually, that he wasn't really trying before and that we both have to work on this M, not just me, but I dont' see that happening. There are a few baby steps, that's why I still have hope.
Maybe we just had a bad day, he's had better weeks.

LN, I want to be loving and hug him and cuddle to him, but won't that be like pushing him into something he isnt' comfortable with yet? I stopped doing that, he doesnt' seem to mind one way or the other, after one talk in which he says he doesn't feel anything still.
Four months is a long time to wait, I still have a few more months in me, I will go on forward, but after August (one year after the A was discovered) i will be done, I can't go on another year with a person who wont' sleep with me kiss me or hug me or even be able to say he feels "something" for me.

[cat03]

Boy, PMS does screw up with my mind. OK, so lots of my above whines I've councel people about "start small, hold hands, etc etc)."
I had decided to give without giving in, (think brain think!) to give without expecting in return, I know my H is a broken man right now, that in any other sitch, before him leaving, he would've responded to my touch much differently.
I should give without strings, because I love him not because he should feel the same for me. I have to remind myself of so many lessons I've learned here.
I think I just needed to let my deepest issues out for a bit, and let go of some that are useless.

(Deep breath) You are right LN, we are in a good spot, we are not divorced, he does want us to work, I want us to work, and I have to put our few but precious baby steps in the spot light.

It will be alright, I know it will , one way or the other, and I'm still rooting for the "one way" still

[whapu]

Cat,
Another quick opportunity presented itself to take a glance at your sitch.

I feel that all we talk about is his job, how stressful is, what he does/doesnt do, pretty much 90% of the time, 7% we talk kids 2% my job and 1% about us, if at all.

Ahhh...I know this ratio or what has become my "M" formula as well. The percentages are about the same. I brought this up to my W and had about the same results. If I have more time and privacy this week I will throw some of my "M" spittle down on my thread.
I wish I had more time to relay what murky thoughts I have but will try later. Hang in there Cat...just realize that no matter what happens........it will be greatness or one step closer to greatness...breathe in and breathe out....in with the good air out with the @#@#@#$....peace

[Aud31]

I can't begin to tell you how much I respect you Cat. We all need to vent, and PMS definitely tends to make things *feel* so much worse. Blech. Your fears and needs are valid.

I think what LN said ("Let him know there is nothing to fix. He's off the hook. You're OK.") might be a good thing to consider sliding across the table to H. He knows what you want and need and feels helpless to act...so maybe if there's a way you can take the pressure off him it will help (please know that I think you deserve the happy movie ending NOW, but it's probably not going to just show up, grrr). I wish it didn't mean that you have to plug on with all this weight on your shoulders. And it pretty much sucks that he doesn't appear to be getting anywhere with all the space he's already been given.

Your time frame is fair. Chin up sister.

[cat03]

Love you all))))))))))))))) thanks for your support everyone, I feel safe crumbling here I know you are there to catch me.

Had an eureka moment, just realized my H had tried for years to be there for me, to love him as a man, has been a good husband imperfections and all.. and most times I rejected him. No wonder he doesn't trust me, I can fully understand now, how my one year (full of ups and downs) of change still doesnt' give him reasons to trust me.
I'll leave him off the hook of "trust me NOW or we can't make it", he has hanged there for so so freaking long, waiting for me to treat him right and now.. I think about hanging the towel now that he is broken, I am not being fair at all.
My being feisty was mostly the reason we went wrong, I feel so so ashamed of myself I could cry, he wonders where he went wrong, I steared us that way, out of ignorance but still, I made the most damage. I know he had his part too, and his untreated ADHD made it so hard to live with him, but that also was at the moment out of his control, he didn't even know what was wrong with him.

I'm not quiting without a fight, scratch August, I'll be here for him 'til I can't anymore, until God wills it.