not a peep

[NikB]

Hey I just thought of something.. didn't you have a thread recently titled "He just said he wants to file - in a BAR!!"

This isn't the first time he's dropped the D bomb in response to pressure... take all the pressure off, and see what happens.

[Dom R]

Hey I just thought of something.. didn't you have a thread recently titled "He just said he wants to file - in a BAR!!"

This isn't the first time he's dropped the D bomb in response to pressure... take all the pressure off, and see what happens.

Niki has a point.
You may not realize it, but once again... YOu were the one who escalated, Trix.

You were the one who brought up "spousal support" and "judges".
That tends to put a guy (or possibly anyone) in full on fight mode.

[Trixi]

Yeah- I agree. I f'ed it up.
Earlier in the conversation, we had talked about the house value and he was saying that at the point I move out we should figure out the value because after that, he will be making all the mortgage payments and he should get "credit" for the appreciation after that point. In retrospect, that means he had thought he would be paying long enough that there would be appreciation to worry about; and 3 months is not that time frame in this market. We had even talked about the market being flat for the next 6 months to a year. Sh!t! I really messed up.

[NikB]

Aw don't beat yourself up too much, really!! I didn't say all that to beat ya over the head with it, just point out something you may not have seen or realized.

I hate the talk about "house value" - it makes my heart start pounding and the hair on my neck stand up, only because of the implications of what it means. So I totally understand how easy it is to jump into a very scary talk from there.

I don't think you should let him tell you how the whole mortgage / appreciation / credit think "should" work. Find out the real story from a lawyer!!

In my case I found out that in CA, until the house is transferred to the other spouse or sold, here's how they do it:

1. Figure out rental value of the house
2. Subtract current mortgage from the rental value.
3. Split the difference 50/50 - and each spouse keeps their "right" to the equity.

So let's say..

Mortgage: 1500
Rental value of home: 1200

Difference = $300. Whoever stays in the house "rents" it for $1200, then pays $150 for their half of the mortgage to the other spouse. You both get half the equity when it sells (or one spouse can buy the other out).

In my case it's even a better scenario - might be for you, too. Won't use real #s but mine looks like:
Mortgage: 1200
Rental value: 1500
Difference: -300

So if H wants to stay in the house.. no problem! He can pay the mortgage, plus pay me the additonal $150 for my half of the "rent."

Basically they look at it that until the house is sold, whoever is living in it is renting it at fair market value (or, you can both move out and rent it out).

All the usual caveats - I'm not a lawyer, this is for California only and based on what one L told me (but some further internet research has backed it up). But please do check into it before you get into a really unfair agreement.

Mediator / laywer also suggested this can be a good negotiating point. If the support amount he'd owe you is roughly equal to the "rent" amount you'd have to pay - make a deal that he pays no support but you get 50% equity and he has to pay the mortgage. Everything's negotiable, of course... but know the law first so you at least know where you are starting from!

[MaxP]

Hey Trixi,

I can't believe he's using such emotional blackmail against you. That's really low.

Hang in there.

Max

[NikB]

Difference = $300. Whoever stays in the house "rents" it for $1200, then pays $150 for their half of the mortgage to the other spouse. You both get half the equity when it sells (or one spouse can buy the other out).

Just realized I said this backwards... whoever is NOT living there pays the $150 for their half.. but hopefully you got the idea.

[Trixi]

I think if I bother to get a legal separation put in place, that will up the ante and he will really feel compelled to file for divorce. I don't know.

What I had been TRYING to get across to him is that we could agree to everything, put it down on paper to avoid confusion but hold off on any drastic (read legal) measures. In fact, when I was talking about leaving things status quo (legally), I did say something like "it would give us both a chance to catch our breath and really evaluate things with clear heads." Cheese us, mary and joseph-- I was trying NOT to pressure him.

I am now vascillating between "oh, the horror of it all; how can it all end so fast?!" and "F him. good. Now I can just move on. I'm glad he's wanting to get it over with." It seems like there is so much water under the bridge, I can't imagine making this work without a lot of TIME and distance between us. I currently couldn't give less of a sh!t about this stupid house; I have no love for his parents (my DD bday was the end of Oct and they didn't call her-not to mention the rest of their shenanigans); I hate him for not really trying; for going out to bars; for dating other women (even though we're separated);for sleeping with me a week ago and then saying we should file ASAP; for saying if it gets ugly that's IT for us (even though he probably meant as friends.)

I don't understand what the big hurry IS. I mean, geez, there are people out there LIVING with OP that don't want to actually file yet. I guess I need to come to terms with the idea that he is done. That the marriage is too broken to fix and that there really IS too much history.

I feel like I may have stuck myself between a rock and a hard place--how do I get us to put things on paper without it escalating to a 'hurry up and file' type conversation? Is there any way to deescalate things? I do think that for the protection of both of us, we need to put things in writing.

[NikB]

And make sure whatever you put in writing is fair to you under the law - so a judge doesn't later say "So you already agreed to this" and there goes the stamp of approval.

How to de-escalate is a good question. My thought would be either 1. wait and do nothing that he sees (but in the meantime, check with a L, write out what a fair proposal looks like from your side, and plan how to CALMLY discuss it if/when he brings it up). Or 2. Write up a proposal (that's legal and fair) and either give or email it to him, and ask to set up a mutually convenient time to discuss it.

I realize you're under some time pressure with your house rental coming up... so #2 might be a better choice even though it's taking action towards what you DON'T want. I dunno.. that's really a tough one.

[NikB]

Oh.. just one more (depressing, sorry) thought. You might also want to ask a L what happens if you guys both sign and agree to something and he "changes his mind" - as in, stops paying whatever you agreed to. If it's not a legal doc, does it have any weight??

I'd worry just because I feel like he's going to get angry and try to pull something very unfair.

[Dom R]

judging by past events.. i'm guessing the only effective way to de-escalate, is just to not talk to him for a few days.

let him cool off, see if it helps.

PS:

I guess I need to come to terms with the idea that he is done. That the marriage is too broken to fix and that there really IS too much history

you may come to terms with the idea that he is done trying right now..
but in no way is there "too much history".
That is just sad.

There are some marriages out there which really DO have "too much history" to deal with easily.
10 years of adultery. Years of physical abuse.

Your marriage has none of that. All it has, is a selfish, ungrateful prick