HD thanks for the hugs (I nearly type jugs - woops!)
Corrie thanks too. And HUGE HUGE apologies for never replying about France - it's on my list - you made the fatal error of letting me know the trip's not until May. In my ADD/Type 7 mind that means no need to worry until 29th April. I think I probably need a kick up the azz with the famed pointy shoes.
zuzu thanks for the good wishes it always gives me a lift to get kind thoughts from people here.
Journey, you are right that everything works out for the best and that is one of the things I said to him last night. I praised him for being brave enough to say it. Said something about if you love someone let him go. Then when he said "I think I might have just made the worst mistake of my life" - I said things will be OK.
Dom,
Being very flippant "play things so that he would stay" would be acting like I gave a darn whether he stays or not. We have come to this pass before and I have done various versions of promising to be a good wife, begging him to stay, telling him I love him etc which have made him relent. If I don't do any of those things and just let him ramble on then if he stays it is his decision alone and he is not doing it for me.
He reacts to any suggestions about treating his alcoholism either with denial that it is any kind of a problem or a sweetly made promise that is never acted on.
Lil
Thanks for the hugs - I needed them. You are right of course. I do know that I must go to alanon or some kind of counselling whatever happens. I am not just going to bumbling on with my life this way. I know full well that we ended up together because my self-esteem was in my boots. Not something I was conscious of at the time of course but it is very clear to me now. I know that I have my work to do and I must do it before I go near any other R. My big priority is the kids and always has been, they are the innocent parties in all this, they didn't ask to have an alcoholic for a dad. If he is too weak to stick around and be a dad (not that he is all that much of one while he is around) that is going to be very difficult for them and I have to be there for them. For that to happen I have to be OK.
One thing which has been bugging me is the extent to which these boards have prolonged the agony rather than helped. It was four and half years ago that H dropped the bomb and I could have headed straight for the courts and moved on with my life. The kids would have been young enough for that to be a little less hard on them. And who knows where we would be now? To give MWD her due she does say in the DB book "do not try this if there is any issue of substance abuse". But I ignored her. I do think it would do well for the moderators to patrol these boards a little more vigilantly for people like me - because the DB methods DO NOT SUIT these cases. They just need to do some kind of automated trawl for words like "alcohol" "AA" etc.
To be honest Lil you are the only person to my knowledge on these boards giving any kind of solid advice to someone dealing with an alcy. In the very early days I even posted with titles like "dealing with an alcoholic" but not one word of help was forthcoming. The sober recovery website is excellent
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
I don't know if the boards prolong the agony, Fran. I think they help a person get to the point of KNOWING they have done all they can do... and if the times comes to depart... you know did everything you could think of to hold it together.
I second that, and add that the boards have helped some people, me included, grow. Grow more mature emotionally, to be specific.
My earliest posts focused on my wife's radical feminism and how it was affecting our relationship. I was totally focused on how she was the root cause of my pain. I've come a long way since then (although I still think that her feminism has nothing but a negative effect on our relationship, it's but one of the cogs in the big wheel.)
Look at it this way: If you do split with Mr.Hap, and if you do intend to get into another committed relationship at some point, don't you think you'll be better at picking a suitable partner?
Yes you're right. The agony would have happened either before or after the split. This way it has happened before and you are right about knowing. It does make a difference. I know I have done all I can, I know he has had every chance. I know what he is made of and that it is not about any OW or me being crap at housework or whatever. It is like grief you have to go through all the stages. Stage 1 is denial and that was where I was at for a long time. I can't remember what all the other stages are but I know that last one is acceptance and that's really where I feel I am now. The strange thing is I also know that when (if) it happens I am very likely to keep up a good relationship with his parents and his friends from before the M. To me this speaks volumes. It means I am known by these people who could be "on his team" and they are happy that I have acted well.
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
Hairy, the boards are great and really help a lot of people. And they've helped me too. What I quibble with is that if MWD believes it cannot work when you are dealing with a SO with substance abuse the moderators ought to be on the look out for that. There is a kind of DBing fascism that gets practised here - not so much on SSM - but on the other boards that says you have to stick it out. The whole Act as IF mentality gets twisted around into Act like its all OK. I think we know a little better than that here. I guess if I hadn't come to these boards when he first walked out and had found them later I would have been left wondering what I could have done. Now I know what I could have done, I've done it and here we are. So I know I did the best I possibly could. That does help.
And it also makes a difference knowing he could have come here and didn't.
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
Fran, I was just thinking about you/missing your presence the other day. I was going to say I'm sorry it's come to this .... but also maybe not, you know? You sound like you're in a reasonably stable place with it all, somewhere in between "Oh God don't leave me I love you" and "Get the hell out".
((((((( Fran )))))))))
I tend to agree with you about "as if". It has its place but is of *limited* utility and can easily morph into avoidance and/or emotional dishonesty. IMHO.
Hang in there, lady .....
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
Good comments, Fran. And I do agree that the extreme "save the marriage at all costs" mentality here has prolonged the agony for some.
Substance abuse DOES skew everything, and that isn't always emphasized as it should be.
You said in your post that you know you need to get into "alanon or some counseling." Those are not the same thing as each other and cannot be substituted for each other. Alanon is free, so I suggest going there first. ONE HOUR A WEEK, FRAN! Surely you can find that.
You will NOT get counseling at alanon. No one will talk to you about your problem or what to do or how you should be handling it. In fact no one will address you directly at all during the meeting. You may have people come up to you afterward and introduce themselves. You may choose to do what I did and come late and leave early so you didn't have to talk to anyone.
GO! What in the holy hell are you waiting for?!? Do this for YOU. It's free. There are meetings all over the place pretty much around the clock. It's ANONYMOUS. You never have to speak at all if you don't want to. NO, it's not a miracle-working organization. But it's SOMETHING... something more than you are doing for yourself right now. It's a step. A statement to yourself that you care about yourself. At alanon, you don't worry about him. You think about YOU and what will make your life better. If he announced that he was ready to get into therapy AND AA, and he wanted you to drive him there, would you do it? I suspect you would. So take at least that much effort for you.
Lil looks over her shoulder at stacks and stacks of broken records
Or I can bring out the big guns...
(((((Fran)))))
Changing the subject: Do you eat Marmite? How do you eat it? On toast?
Also: Do you ever watch "Gordon Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares"? I LOVE that program. Talk about an alpha male! His use of the f-word is a bit over the top, but I guess it's part of his persona.
Also: Do you ever watch "Gordon Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares"? I LOVE that program. Talk about an alpha male! His use of the f-word is a bit over the top, but I guess it's part of his persona.
Alton Brown is the best ...
/hijack{over}
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
The way Gordon just goes into a kitchen and takes over-- pretty amazing! His modus operandi is very much an illustration of what cobra used to say about how men talk to each other in a sports context-- name calling, insults, no sympathy for hurt feelings, pushing, demanding, etc. Fascinating to watch.
Yes Lil I do eat marmite from time to time. Not often. Spread very thinly on buttered toast.
And yes I watch kitchen nightmares and I am now a total convert to Gordon - he's fantastic! Totally alpha. Every man should watch this show and pick up tips. You don't need to use the F word as much as he does but you do need to give-a-fvck as much as he does. To care about something and to be so focused on making it happen - that's what's alpha.
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
