But - one fear is that I draw a line in the sand - and she says, "ok, well, do what you have to do".
Two things are true. One is that if you didn't have that fear you already would have simply done "what you have to do". The second thing is that she may very well say that and even think that she means it but be kidding herself. She KNOWS you are unhappy so she has already reconciled the "worst-case scenario" books in her mind in order to continue her current behavior but she might not be a very fore-sighted bookkeeper.
Actually, a third thing is true. You are almost certainly more unhappy with your marriage than you know. Every time somebody comes to this BB and says "everything is great except for the sex" they are usually full of cr*p. Pretend that you went up to your attic this evening and opened up a trunk and when you unrolled the poster of whatever girl you had up on your wall in high school she magically came to life and was available for your sexual pleasure AND romantic interaction anytime you returned to the attic. Now, return downstairs to your marriage. Are you perfectly happy with it? Would your behavior and/or expectations change?
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Two things are true. One is that if you didn't have that fear you already would have simply done "what you have to do". The second thing is that she may very well say that and even think that she means it but be kidding herself. She KNOWS you are unhappy so she has already reconciled the "worst-case scenario" books in her mind in order to continue her current behavior but she might not be a very fore-sighted bookkeeper.
I think I understand what you're saying. I'll read through it a few more times tonight.
Quote:
Actually, a third thing is true. You are almost certainly more unhappy with your marriage than you know. Every time somebody comes to this BB and says "everything is great except for the sex" they are usually full of cr*p.
Is it possible that its the other way around? That I'm more unhappy with the marriage because of the lack of sex?
Last edited by Stormchaser; 12/04/0711:52 PM.
Me: 52 Her: 48 2D 26 & 16 M: 25 years (together 30) EA/discovered by accident Valentines day 2016 Admitted SOME physical but no IC. We know that's a lie. Status - tryin to R
Is it possible that its the other way around? That I'm more unhappy with the marriage because of the lack of sex?
Maybe. Contrary to popular opinion, that's pretty much how it was in my marriage ... everything else *was* fine but I wasn't getting my sexual/touch needs met, for reasons that had everything to do with my husband's upbringing and personality and nothing to do with the relationship between the two of us .... when that finally became an issue of contention, it started to bleed into other areas.
That's fine as long as you don't begin to think, "Well, it's just sex, why am I complaining so much and risking the wreckage of an otherwise sound ship?" If it's a big deal to *you*, Storm, it's a big deal. Don't let anyone -- not even you -- convince you otherwise.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
Is it possible that its the other way around? That I'm more unhappy with the marriage because of the lack of sex?
Maybe. Contrary to popular opinion, that's pretty much how it was in my marriage ... everything else *was* fine but I wasn't getting my sexual/touch needs met, for reasons that had everything to do with my husband's upbringing and personality and nothing to do with the relationship between the two of us .... when that finally became an issue of contention, it started to bleed into other areas.
That's fine as long as you don't begin to think, "Well, it's just sex, why am I complaining so much and risking the wreckage of an otherwise sound ship?" If it's a big deal to *you*, Storm, it's a big deal. Don't let anyone -- not even you -- convince you otherwise.
Thats exactly how I feel. Yes, there were your typical quarrels and snips about things, finances, kids, dogs pooping in the living room. But as long as the sexual needs were met, nothing really ever bothered me that much. I felt close, and that close feeling made all those little annoyances just that - little.
And yes, you said it exactly - to me, its a huge deal. To her, its like I'm just a typical horny guy that's making a big deal of nothing. To her, the low sexual desire is a fact of aging, just like wrinkles and gray hair. And its accepted as such.
Me: 52 Her: 48 2D 26 & 16 M: 25 years (together 30) EA/discovered by accident Valentines day 2016 Admitted SOME physical but no IC. We know that's a lie. Status - tryin to R
Is it possible that its the other way around? That I'm more unhappy with the marriage because of the lack of sex?
Okay, I probably shouldn't have used the word "unhappy". Your emotional state of the moment is irrelevant. What I should have said was that the overall state of your marriage is probably worse than you currently comprehend. You have a certain amount of life energy. You choose to devote a certain amount of it to your marital relationship. There are various components to your marital relationship one of which is the sexual. Unless you are a person with rock solid boundaries, you are almost certainly either over-investing or under-investing in the other components of your marital relationship due to the shortage of sex. If you had rock-solid boundaries the POP in your marriage would be exactly the same as the street price. Now, like most of us here, you are probably a bit of a romantic so you are kind of thinking along the lines of "sex with the woman I love and with whom I have shared my life" is worth more than the street POP which would only get me "just sex"- OR - you might be thinking along the lines of "I am the man who has devoted my life and love to her so I shouldn't have to 'pay' for it. She should just give it to me lovingly." etc. etc. etc. There are some exceptions to the rule but the overwhelming objective evidence offered by the experiences on this BB is that taking ownership of your sexuality and exposing your marriage to street-level sexual economics will break the gridlock. If you are self-aware and good at maintaining your boundaries you can avoid doing this in a destructive manner, like by having an affair. If you have read Passionate Marriage, the bar scenario is a good example of this theory in action. I think you might better comprehend what I am talking about if you observe that there are many very attractive women on this BB who were in situations in which they were actually trying to pay for c*ck. I can't believe that I ever tried to do something so idiotic.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
My best advice to you, Storm, is to create some emotional distance between you and your W. Find things outside the M that interest you and fulfill you in other ways. Work on making yourself happy, finding out what it is you are passionate about (other than your family and sex). STOP pursuing her. You are only turning her off and devaluing yourself in her eyes (and in turn, losing respect for yourself).
She is in the position of power in the R, and I bet you she doesn't want to BE there... hence her LDness. You need to become the attractive male to her, again... and that includes going and doing your own thing... not to GET sex... but to build your self confidence and sense of purpose. <-- Those two things are extreme turn ons to women...
And you inform her, precisely, of what you are doing.... i.e.,
"wife... I love you. But I'm not pursuing you anymore. I'm working on me, getting a life, finding my way. I have no intention of staying in a sexless marriage for the rest of my life. I'll hang in there as long as I can. I am a healthy, vibrant male, and I will be having sex, with someone, at some point in my future. I'd very much like for it to be with you."
Period. End of discussion. Go about being you and recovering your sense of self. She won't believe you at first. Be kind, be caring, but completely DROP HER as the center of your universe. YOU are the center of your world. You have invited her to share it with you (currently you are begging and pleading that she share it with you... ewh, gross... huh?)... do NOT accept crap sex, drunk sex, or emotionless sex. If she does initiate at some point and it doesn't feel right to you... stop it. Tell her... 'no thanks.' Out of respect for yourself.
Her desire is her problem. You've made it yours. She's going to have to figure it out on her own... and you are going to have to let her.
The one fear you need to overcome is her leaving you. No, it is not the desired outcome, but it wouldn't be the end of the world, either. <-- When you know that... and you do all that other stuff above... you will regain your manhood and place of leadership in your family. And lo and behold... she may be the one who starts worrying about YOU leaving her.
All this isn't easy, either. You might want to read, "No More Mr. Nice Guy." You can find it on Amazon.com, and there is a corresponding web site. If you decide to read it... make sure you do the exercises. A lot of guys are doing that very thing right now.
Once you GET things righted... you will have to be very careful of not reverting back to old behaviors. The Passion Trap is an excellent read as well. Talks about relationship dynamics.
I'm going to agree with Corri's advice but also pick a small bone with her. It's true that manifesting self-confidence and sense of purpose are turn-ons for women but telling a guy in a SSM to work on that stuff is kind of like telling a women in a SSM to work on her waist-to-hip ratio. If the guy can go out to the Schnarchian bar and get well laid without "begging and pleading" then he already is manifesting enough self-confidence and sense of purpose to pay the street POP. Just because a guy stood in a bread line during the depression doesn't mean he has no marketable skills.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Just because a guy stood in a bread line during the depression doesn't mean he has no marketable skills.
I never said he didn't. He doesn't realize he doesn't have to stand in the breadline. And I'm not suggesting he work on this stuff in order to GET something from her, just like I would never suggest to a woman to lose weight in order to get more sex from her H.
You have to do it for yourself. Not for anyone else. When a woman loses weight, often times she regains her self-confidence... which becomes the attractive quality. I know many women who carry extra weight that put tall thin women to shame... simply because of their 'attitude.'
It's all in the 'tude. And that 'tude can only come from self. If he regains that, and she still declines... then he is all the better ready to move on in the world. And it's her loss.
All I'm saying is that some of the advice given on this BB is the opposite of helpful to HD folk because everybody tries to suggest all sorts of "reasons" why you might not be f*ckable when the truth is you're only not f*ckable within the context of your current relationship. The only thing you have to do is realize that that is true. Getting rejected over and over again f*cks with your mind. As you may recall when I first started dating again I couldn't even believe that men who were saying fairly outrageously flirtatious things to me actually wanted to have sex with me. I thought they were just being NICE. I'm still not 100% confident even though my lovers have been beyond uber-validating. There are a bajillion reasons why somebody might not want to have sex with you. All you need to do is figure out the one reason why you want to get laid.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
