Don't know what I'm doing anymore - Help.

[SirPrizeMe]

Yep, BD, I see a little of me in Ann's husband, too.

Anyway, Ann, I empathize with you, this is a tough thing. But you've got a good heart, and you're strong. Be patient with yourself. Hang in there!

[ann25]

I wouldn't want to have sex with him either

Well, I should hope not... lol...

Anyways, i really appreciated your post. I can't tell you how many times I've thought almost everything you said. "When will he grow up and stop acting like a kid? They are his kids too. I'm trying, isn't that enough... Why do i even bother anymore?"

Just curious, but is he abusive or manipulative in any way? I'm reading your thread and wondering why you're placing all of the blame on yourself.

He's certainly not physically abusive, but emotionally abusive and manipulative, i'd say at least a little bit. He knows that I'm a push over. Don't get me wrong, I can be hard headed and stubborn if I get my mind on something, but when it comes to family and their feelings and needs, I'm easy. He has a way of saying things so that If I don't do what he wants I'll feel guilty. It comes across like, if you cared, you'd do it. He also likes to exaggerate things I say so that it makes me regret saying anything at all. Like in an earlier post (sir mentioned it) he said that he wouldn't kiss me cause he'd hate to make me feel uncomfortable. He had done something extremely sexual the night before and i addressed it right away. He twisted it (cause it hurt his feelings) so I felt like I shouldn't have mentioned it at all. Like i'm an idiot for feeling the way i do. I think this was the cause for a lot of problems before because I hated feeling like that and eventaully (over the course of a year) i just stopped saying things that I knew would upset him. I do blame myself. NO matter how bad or unhappy i felt, an A should never have been an option. I could have left or something. Like i posted to someone else, my EA was to fill the void, there are other ways I could have done that.

Another part of the problem, is that I've enabled him to act like a little boy. he moved out of his mom's house and in with me and nothing ever changed. I've never made him grow up, so now that I expect him to as we are having our second and third children, it's like I'm asking for the world.

Thank you so much for posting... i appreciate all the pennies too!

[ann25]

thank you sir... don't be too hard on heim, he gets enough of that on his own thread... hehe. j/k. My H does act like a little boy. His mom felt bad about not being there for him (drugs and stuff) and so when he lived with her from age 15-19, she did everything. when we started living together, I accomodated that. He didn't have a job, i had 2 jobs. He hung out with friends and played video games. I was raised to work hard and do for others. he wasn't. I didn't mind at the time, but its different once you have children.

I wanted her to say, "I know this is hard now, and I don't like how I feel toward you, but I also want very much to work through this, and I promise you I will make the effort..." She couldn't. Wouldn't. Was afraid.

I can't tell you how many times I've said this. I feel like a broken record sometimes.

You said you initiated sex with H one afternoon, and he was happy afterwards, yet you were miserable. Why miserable? That must be really hard for you. This is the thing that will build up resentment if you keep it up. If you initiate sex, and then he enjoys it, then can you just be happy he is happy? Or if you're not going to be happy, then maybe don't initiate - you're not ready.

I was happy he was happy. Have you ever been disgusted by the thought of something, but do it anyways for someone you love. that's what this is. I'm about to the point where being intimate with him is such a turn off that (i hate to say this) it makes my skin crawl. I don't even want to think about it, but I did it because I know that it is super important to him and he needed that from me. I can see how over time it could build up resentment, but after the weekend we had, i just really wanted to show him that I wanted to give him what he needed. It backfired on me because it made him think that I wanted it and we had to have the whole conversation over again last night, but it's too late to change it now.

Sunday he wouldn't kiss me cause he said he didn't want me to feel uncomfortable. I told him that we discussed that the night before and i told him it was sexualy stuff and not a simple kiss. He was just trying to twist what i had said to make me feel like an idiot. I'm not going to let that work anymore.

If he won't kiss you and says it might make you feel uncomfortable, can you just... kiss HIM? Take the lead? Can you be strong? Can you just say you're sorry that things are so tricky between you? Show him what you can?

This was what i mentioned earlier. He said it with so much sarcasm and bitterness that it wasn't even funny. He was leaving, we always give one another a kiss before we leave the house. It's just what we do. I kiss him, that's one of the things I can do. I was reading on another post (DomR) and he said to make a list of things you feel comfortable with, things you don't like, but will do, and things that make you totally incomfortable. Start on the first group and work through it (very roughly paraphrased... hehe) I tell him how sorry I am that i feel this way. That i know how hard it is for him to hear and understand, but I want to work and get those feelings back. That I'm willing to put in however much time and effort it takes.

How would you feel about meditating on him, and thinking about what you like about him? about what attracted you to him before? about the good things you see in him? how would you feel about doing that stuff - all by yourself?

I think about that stuff all the time. I've got this book, the power of the praying wife, that i read over and over. I'm going to turn into a M/R help library before too long. hehe. Anyways, when we were in MC, she had us do that. It's funny, cause my list had every emotional thing that i've ever loved about him and his had a lot of physical and tangable items on it. I try really hard to focus just on the positive things i see in him now, but that takes a lot of work sometime. I still do it, but it's hard not seeing any effort on the other side. the things that used to attract me, his great sense of humor, his ability to listen to me and actually pay attention, the way he would comfort me when he knew i was hurting inside without me saying a word. There wasn't much by the way of physical attraction (at least for me) when we met, so I was attracted to the emotional stuff that he's just not giving me anymore.

[ann25]

wawpioneer - thank you. I agree that he is angry and hurt and probably has a hard time trusting. I think you are right about us both being WAS. I felt like he was gone for a very long time. Then he wanted the divorce so i left. Not physically of course, but i removed my heart from the sit so i wouldn't get hurt any more. Now I'm trying to get all that back and I i just have to figure out how to communicate it to him so he gets it and it's not just me wasting breathe.

Heim - I read the WAW article. I kept thinking that was me. that was exactly how i felt. That i've told him over and over and over and he's just not going to change, so it's either move on or be unhappy. Any time i bring up the feelings I had before, he says i'm trying to make excuses for the EA. I'm not. Those feelings are real and valid and aren't going away because he doesn't want to admit that he had a part in it. No the EA was not his fault, i take sole blame for that, but how he treated me prior to that, he needs to own some of that. He has apologized for saying he wanted a divorce, saying that he though threatening me would work and that it would make me want to work harder.

you want the phone number... LOL. j/k i do wish someone could tell him that is all I need, some space and some time. He doesn't want to hear it when i say it.

[limbo]

Ann

Something strikes me in your story and its your age, and at your age there is going to be elements of immaturity...I don't mean it in a bad way, but its going to be there.
I honestly think that you both are acting a little bit immaturly, and thats to be expected, you are both still so young, and to be in this situation.
When we marry we all have such wonderful expectations for our marriage, and what married life is going to be like! And when reality sets in we come crashing down.
There are choice's we can make, we can realize that we now move into building a real marriage, with its everyday mundane things, diaper changes, laundry, cleaning...or we can pine for the magic and live with unrealistice expectations.
Our new love feelings just can't be sustained, it has to settle down into something more solid, something stronger, quieter, and I think maybe this is the problem with you both.
In retrouvaille, they tell us love is a choice! And I believe that...you have to choose what you want. And work towards that.

[ann25]

hi limbo. thank you. yes I'm sure there is immaturity on both sides. I think as we grow older we will change more and more.

I think people have a hard time understanding because i am young. I fell in love over 9 years ago. yes i was young, but I had to grow up young. My mom left (to work on her, best thing she ever did) when I was a teenager and I took care of my sisters. I've always been the responsible dependable one. With him, i honestly thought we could make it through anything, that if we worked together, things would be good. The romantic, magic and fireworks, kind of being in love died off probably before we got married if it was there at all. There was never an amazing chemistry or anything. We had a great friendship at first and that is what kept us together, i grew to love him, the things about him.

We moved in together at 19 and didn't get married until over 2 yrs later. We worked, had a dog, paid bills and did all the day to day things. I still loved my husband and was in love with him. Were there fights and arguements, of course, but were there more good days than bad, absolutely. I liked coming home to him. I looked forward to just spending the evening watching our D play and maybe catching a movie on tv. Hearing about his day. Going to bed with him at night. I looked forward to just being with him. I thought of him during the day while i was at work. Now. I love him, but it is oh so different. I look forward to the nights he says he's going out. I wonder if it will be a bad night or just silence or a night of faking hapiness where neither of us really deal with the other because someone is coming over. I wish at times that I didn't have to go home. I wonder if he's going to be mad and what i did this time. Will he touch me or respect what I've told him. will he paly with his Ds or will he be playing video games all night.

I don't expect romance, i don't expect to feel totally consumed by him and our R. I don't need to spend every waking minute with him. Things are good now compared to the last couple years. I don't need the fireworks and magic. I want love, friendship, compassion, understanding and family. I do expect us to disagree, to fight occassionally, to feel underappreciated and hurt at times, it's just going to happen, but there should be more good days than bad.

I deal everyday with the cooking, cleaning and diaper changing, it's just that he doesn't (at least not often). I want a partner. Someone to share my life with and right now i feel like I either have 3 children to care for or i live with my dad and can't do anything right.

I agree that loving someone is a choice. How easy it would have been to stop loving him when I was hurting so badly. How many times did i just want to give up? I chose to stay and love him. Be loving to him. But how do i go from being his friend to wanting him as my husband. How do i chose to do that? How do i chose to fall in love with this new man that I live with when I'm not even sure that i like him very much.

[ann25]

okay, so i was reading back and i'm sorry limbo... i got defensive. I don't ever seem to be able to defend myself or my feelings at home, so maybe i took it out on you... sorry.

something more solid, something stronger, quieter

This is what i want. something strong that will stand as long as we do. thank you.

journaling/venting: I wish i could have my husband back. The one that I married, not the one that lives in my house. I don't know why i let get to me like i do. I call home on the way to work. when i take lunch, before i go back to lunch, on my way home. I enjoy talking to him during the day and we exchange emails back and forth. mostly light hearted stuff. I enjoy that stuff. I just don't understand why he can't be that person when I'm at home. Why when I get home is there always something I've done wrong. I'm just not that bad a person. really. Why can't we be friends at home too?

Tonight should be good. He's got a friend spending the night, so he won't be grabbing me or touching me. That's a relief. I'll play with the girls and read and read and read... hehe.

[ann25]

each night seems more and more disfunctional at home... could be just me noticing all the things that go on as I'm starting to pay more attention now, but i don't know.

i posted something on another thread to someone else and it was pointed out to me that he can't make me feel guilty. I guess i do that myself. i feel guilty because i feel like if i don't do what he asks, that I won't be making him happy. silly me, he has to make him happy.

new goal for now... don't let his critism, sarcasm and tone effect what I do or do not want to do.

to anyone whose S has had an EA/PA, question. We had a small disagreement/misunderstanding last night. I apologized for it and thought we were fine. When i asked him why he was still upset he said he just wondered how many more arguements it would take for me to run out and find someone else. How do i respond to that? He says it at least a few times a week. Is he looking for reassurance? What would you have needed to hear in a sit like that?

to anyone whose S has had an EA/PA, question. We had a small disagreement/misunderstanding last night. I apologized for it and thought we were fine. When i asked him why he was still upset he said he just wondered how many more arguements it would take for me to run out and find someone else. How do i respond to that?

You tell him you are sorry and you reiterate your commitment to him.

He says it at least a few times a week. Is he looking for reassurance? What would you have needed to hear in a sit like that?

Of course he is looking for reassurance - You had a EA, right? Every time you guys don't get along he probably thinks that's your cue to find someone else to be close to instead of him.

Only time will fix that.

[Heimlich]

Ultimately, your H is going to have to do some work on himself for you two to be happy. That said, your H needs your reassurances that you want to be with HIM. Now, the fact that you're there should be a good indication of your intention, however you were there when you had an EA (though it seems he's forgetting that he had said he wanted to D you at the time, so I don't actually blame you for turning to someone else for the emotional support that you needed) and that plays on his mind. Plus, if he knows that he's not physically your type AND you're rejecting his sexual advances that's cutting to the core of his self-worth and security. OK, that said, you just need to be honest with him, tell him what you need from him and that you want those things from him; that you can't give him a guarantee (there are no guarantees in life, everyone needs to learn that), but that you desperately want to remain married to him, that you want to fall back in love with him, that you think you can and that you think you can have a good life together, but that you need his help -- then tell him how he can help you. Ask him to accept that you're not interested in sex right now, but that you want to be and that pushing you is pushing you away. That you will approach him. That he needs to help you with the children (as an active father, I find it hard to have sympathy for someone who doesn't help with that and then whines that his W doesn't have time for him or feels disconnnected from him -- boo effing hoo. Sorry, had to get that out there.)

And, yes, you make yourself feel guilty. He's obviously got a lot that keeps you attracted to him -- tell him those things too. Tell him what you love about him.

Dunno, just my penny's worth today.

BD