WAW does not want to try

[wawpioneer]

I understand. It is difficult not to address it at all. I will try. I will work on that. I do have some time to suppress that desire to ask about OM. I have not asked about OM in quite a while and I guess the fact that she is going to be going through that area brought back fear. I think I understand the reasons not to talk about the OM. If anyone has any other reasons not to talk to her about the OM please let me know. It would help me suppress that desire to talk about it. Thank you I_W.

[mako]

This may have been addressed above, but in my opinion a big reason to not mention it is it will do you NO good, mentally.

What if she says: "Sure we are M, but in name only, and I will go see OM if I want to." This will kill you inside, you may blow up at her, I don't see how it could help your progress.

If she says: "No, of course I won't see him." You may accept that...but are you really going to believe it? She wasn't honest about OM before, will she be now? I think even if she gave you full assurrances you would still have a bit of doubt. So that answer won't really help you either, until you reach a point where you have the full trust for her you once had (I assume you are not at that point).

And, along with what others have said, questioning may spark the idea for her or make her defensive, it might just push her further from you and into his arms.

If you gotta talk about it do it elsewhere: a C, trusted friend, on this board, write a letter to her then burn it...anything that gets it out but doesn't lead to a discussion with her.

[smith18]

Good point Mako. By realizing that any answer she gives is not going to satisfy yourself now, it will keep yourself from asking the question to begin with.

I think that if your W starts to reconcile, she will want to get some details of the A off her chest anyway. Wait for her to be open about it.

[Atlas]

WP,

The A isn't about you or about your M, it is hers and hers alone to deal with. My W did the same thing. She has now come clean and we have talked a little about it, but she stated there was nothing I could have said or done to change or stop her actions. So all I did on the few occasions when I did confront is drive her to him, she stated it. Well it "appears" to be going the way of the Dodo, right at about 6 months. So they do end, they do fall apart. Can't build a home on shaky ground. But you have to focus on you, this is her hell to drive through and all you can do is sit back watch and pray.

[wawpioneer]

I appreciate the comments. I did not ask her if she was going to see OM on her trip or not. It really did not matter after it was all said and done tonight.

This is how the conversation went. She told me more of the same things that she had been telling me. She added some to it though. She said that she was ready to bolt out of the church just as soon as we got M. She says that she should have ended it a long time ago and she never really loved me but just made all her decisions to make everyone else in her life happy but her. She says that she blames herself for all of this and that she has forgiven me for everything that I failed to do (I asked her to forgive specific things such as controlling behavior) but she said that she was the one that got us into this mess that we are in now. She said that I was looking for something to pin this all on but it is not there, it is all her. She blames herself for not talking about it to me and for not ending it before we got M. She also said that my views and the my church's views on divorce and remarraige are so conservative that they are nearly radical. She said that she was not going to be guilted into staying. I never intended on guilting her into anything. She says that we are just friends and that she doesn't think that any amount of changes in me will affect that. She says that she does not see herself coming back. She also said that no one understands. She does not regret leaving and has not missed me at all. She also said that she never really wanted me around. She was glad to have me gone all the time. She said that she enjoyed my absence. She said that she never really wanted to be intimate with me and that she never really wanted to have sex either. She just did it so that I would leave her alone. She said that if she really loved me and wanted me around that she would have demanded that I spend time with her and that she would have come downstairs when I was on the computer and demanded that I talk with her. She said that she would have wanted to do things on weekends with me instead of groups of people or friends. She said that she never wanted to to that because she never truly loved me.

She also said that she has lost herself. She said that she still feels like she is 18 and that she never grew up. She gave up her life for what I wanted. She said that she never had a college life to find herself. She said that she does not know how to be independant. She also said that she does not know who she is and she does not know how I can love her when she does not know who she is. She said that she needs to be able to find happiness in herself and that she needs time alone and that she needs to go her own way. She says that she feels like she was a co-pilot in her life and that she was not in control of her life but is in complete control of her future. She said that she wants to find a way to make herself happy even though she knows that sounds selfish. It almost sounds like a MLC and a WAW all rolled into one.

Ultimately, she told me that she did not want to work on us at all. She said that she wants to work on herself and find herself and happiness within herself. She told me that she was choosing not to work on our M. She said that she did not want to go to C with me anymore and that she wanted to pursue the LS after Jan 1 per my request to not do this around X-mas. She said that she wanted enough money out of the LS to move on with her life. She assured me that there was not OM and that there was just an EA and never was a PA. She did say that she does not know what will happen nor what she will do. She says that she does not like the area and wants to move but don't know to where. She wants to go back to school so she may move to college town somewhere. She also said that she does not know if she will wake up 6 months from now or 1 year from now and realize that this is where she wants to be and that she does want to be M but she says that if she does she knows that we will both be better people and that she would be a better W and that I would be a better H if she did. I am hurting so bad right now that I am numb. I did pretty good when we met. She was teary eyed during some of it. Not sure why. I did a lot of validating and I did ask some questions for clarification. At the end I asked her if she thought that I understood everything. She said yes. I also told her in the end that she never really has had anyone fight for her during her life. Everyone has given up on her including herself. I told her that I have failed in the R but that I was not going to fail the M. I have C tomorrow and we are going again on Thurs to tell the C her decision. I am crying as I am posting right now and it is so hard to let her go but I am going to have to find a way. I really do not know what to do at this point. We will have to have contact during the LS but not sure how much if any to contact her. I really think that she is done for good but will not give up on her. She wrote her sister a letter in MI that detailed similar statements that she told me. She must have been rehearsing it. She did mention to her S though that she did have a 0.01% of doubt that this is the right decision but was pretty sure.

This is killing me right now. It feels like my heart is being pulled from my body. I know that you are right Atlas that this is more about her right now than anything but it feels like my own personal hell on earth. I think I will spend a lot of time praying and crying for a while. Any thoughts on what I should do would be appreciated.

[Heimlich]

I don't do this a lot, but {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{WP}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}. Damn. I am so sorry.

There's no easy way through pain like that. Take your time and process it.

Please take care of yourself -- eat, get outside, go for a walk, get out.

Many others on the board have heard similar statements. You've decided to hang in there, despite this new pain, it seems. So, just keep doing what you're doing. Let her go, as hard as that is.

She also said that she does not know if she will wake up 6 months from now or 1 year from now and realize that this is where she wants to be and that she does want to be M but she says that if she does she knows that we will both be better people and that she would be a better W and that I would be a better H if she did.

That's a very small positive to take from this. Don't recall many folks getting that line.

Man, just take care of yourself.

BD

[mako]

Oh wawpioneer, I'm so sorry.

I don't have any great advice, but you are doing what you need to do right now: have a good cry and some good praying. It will help.

Just know that many of us have been where you are now. After a similar talk I cried uncontrollably in front of my W for a long time, she even tried to console me and I just couldn't stop. I then cried for an entire 40 minute (very unsafe) drive to my parents' house. It is the worst thing in the world right now, but it WILL get better.

Also know that everything she said isn't necessarily true. Many hurtful things are often said that they regret later...

Anyway, I hope you feel better by the time you read this. Take care.

EDIT: and yeah, second BD, don't forget to take care of yourself! Eat, sleep, etc. It will be even harder to deal with if you're unhealthy, malnourished, and all that.

[I_Wanna_Make_It_Work]

Let me chime in ... you said, she said, "blah, blah, blah." I read every word, waw-p, don't think I didn't. And, it doesn't matter. None of what she is saying matters beyond the points where she is giving you insight to her issues and your issues. My W and all WAS said/say many of the same things. She is telling you what she feels at this moment. That will change. Stick with the program.

A year ago, my W said she felt as though we were room mates. We never connected. She wanted a D. No counseling. It's over. I did not allow any of that to take the focus of the goal - healing the marriage Those are present day circumstances and it will change, if you change. Of course I hurt and cried uncontrolably, too. This is the woman I expected to spend the rest of my life with.

A year later, my W calls me every day. Today, for an hour and a half. She speaks with clarity. She is humble. Every day, we connect a little more. She is 2300 miles away ... but anyone listening in to our phone calls would think we have the best marriage ever. We don't. But in contrast to a year ago? I wouldn't have believed it possible.

Now is the time to accept the situation for what it is today, and grow in Love, Hope and Faith in yourself, your wife, your marriage and God. Here's a link for you - if you are ready to go to the next spiritual level needed to get through this.

http://www.rejoiceministries.org

Keep posting and venting....

[wawpioneer]

I_W,

I had just enough energy to read to words on the home page but I really am emotionally drained right now. Thank you for the link. It should help me. I will go back to it at another time. I talked to my brother tonight and he made an interesting statement. He said that she has already taken this so far that if she went back on her decision to separate then she might regret that for the rest of her life more than she would regret not staying and working on our M. There may be something to that. I don't know. I am so confused right now and I am feeling just as lost as she probably is.

I am trying to accept the situation for what it is but it is so hard for me to imagine a future without her and it is so hard to imagine that she is going to go on with her life without any regard to me at all. I will hope and pray that through the counceling and through the lord that she will find her way back to me. Right now it is so hard to see anything through all the pain and anguish.

I appreciate the words of encouragement. That afterall is my love language as described by Gary Chapman. She also has read the book but does not understand the "in love" vs "real love" section and cannot determine her love language. I think that she is so determined to change everything about her sitch but nothing about herself to find happiness. I pray that one day she will see the light.

[I_Wanna_Make_It_Work]

My last words for tonight - be at peace. She is doing everything to justify a decision she knows is wrong. It will cause you much pain in the months to come. But she too will feel it.

Have Faith that this will be reconciled.