WAW says "I'm filing for D", but no papers

[smith18]

Sir -

There appears to still be hope in your situation. It could be that your W is finding that taking care of 4 kids most of the time is more than she bargained for. She may be finding out that the grass is not greener.

I have the same opinion as you have expressed in wanting to see my kids grow up under a happy family. You and I have so many things we want to still do together as a family.

[SirPrizeMe]

BD, thanks for the steadfast advice.

re: on the 2nd front point (hee hee, is this Sun Tzu stuff here?): just to refresh, originally I was thinking of sending him a very long letter and along with a request to meet with him to discuss my M (and his daughter). I want him to be clear to my FIL that things don't add up here. (I just wish someone would have asked her, at some point in the discussion, "are you sure?") I figured out that my plan for a long letter and a meeting was not a good idea (thank you), but I had already raised the idea of a meeting with him. I know he'll mention this to W. So at this point I have to rel it back in. Hence the reason for the email to him.

What do you think now?

My personal feelings is that it's OK to tell your W is she looks nice, just don't leer or anything.

My W actually told me it's okay if I leer

[Just_Me]

SirPrizeMe,

Sorry, I haven't read your whole thread. But I had to reply to this post of yours. I know a person should look for positives, but I think you are overanalyzing alot and not at all detached. Your spouse is not your enemy, and therefore, if you are treated in a friendly or pseudofriendly manner, it is not inconsistent with a desire for divorce. Let me give a few examples....

She could hear the noise in the background and asked where I was. So that's good, she thinking about me.

If you were talking to your sister or a friend and you heard odd noise in the background, would you ask where he/she was? It doesn't mean that she was thinking about you.

Obviously she wanted to come in for some reason. Maybe she wanted to see if anyone was there with me. Regardless, she is interested.

She is interested? Maybe. But it's quite a bit of analyzing.

I took this as an indication that she might be tiring of the solo parent thing. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

You probably are reading too much into it.

Sunday morning she called for what seemed a made-up reason.

Speculation.

I thought it notable that she wanted to drop them off as well as pick them up. The only thing I can figure is she wants the interaction. She is going out of her way to make sure she sees me...

Or she doesn't want you coming by if OM is over. Who knows.

Now that I tried to shoot holes in all of that, I would like to say that it is a positive that you both can talk. It's good that she's comfortable enough to come in the house. It's wonderful that you are coparenting maturely. And maybe she is interested. I think things are in a good place. But my point is that I think you are still too wrapped up in her. You notice every little thing and you analyze every thing. While your doing all of this, when do you have time to think at least somewhat about yourself? I mean living your life without always considering what ramifications your actions have on your wife. I think things seem hopeful, and I do think you should make the most of your interactions, and yes, enjoy the interactions. But I think your situation calls for just a smidge of detachment, that's all. You know...just a little more living for yourself (and your child).

[SirPrizeMe]

Hey Kerry! Thanks for the note of support. Keep strong, for yourself.

There appears to still be hope in your situation. It could be that your W is finding that taking care of 4 kids most of the time is more than she bargained for. She may be finding out that the grass is not greener.

YES! Gosh, I sure hope so. You know, she is great with the kids, really loves being a mom, and for a long time she's been the primary caregiver. She would die a happy woman if she got to do this full time, I think. While we were together, I was happy to support her in that vocation. so it's not so much the taking care of 4 kids most of the time is more than she bargained for. But that's close...

At this point, with papers filed, I think she is doing some arithmetic in her head. Finances, how to pay for things, how much maintenance she is likely to get. She's maybe realizing she'll need a job, a fulltime job. Maybe she is realizing that without a partner who provides an income, she cannot follow her desired vocation of being a fulltime mom. Well, not exactly, it's just that in addition to being a fulltime mom, she will have to work, she'll have less time to be "a mom", and she'll have much less money, and that means fewer vacations, smaller house, less outside help, etc.

I'll take my share of credit for not having made sure this was clear to her earlier, but we are where we are.
I'm just tryign to stay cheerful, let the right natural amount of pressure come through to her (eg, there are consequences to her actions) without being punitive or evem seeming to do so.

I have the same opinion as you have expressed in wanting to see my kids grow up under a happy family. You and I have so many things we want to still do together as a family.

Oh, yes. My truest desire. Everything is solvable if I can rebuild my family.

[Just_Me]

At this point, with papers filed, I think she is doing some arithmetic in her head. Finances, how to pay for things, how much maintenance she is likely to get. She's maybe realizing she'll need a job, a fulltime job. Maybe she is realizing that without a partner who provides an income, she cannot follow her desired vocation of being a fulltime mom. Well, not exactly, it's just that in addition to being a fulltime mom, she will have to work, she'll have less time to be "a mom", and she'll have much less money, and that means fewer vacations, smaller house, less outside help, etc.

I probably shouldn't pipe in, but I just can't help myself. It's possible that she did the math. It's possible she really wants to be a full-time mom and not work outside the home. But isn't it equally likely that she considered all this before she wanted out of the marriage, and despite all that she still wants a divorce more than she wants stability? That's the thing....the desire to leave outweighs those concerns. She had all this stuff you are offering before. What you need to offer is this new you that is the better partner and hopefully she'll see that. And then she gets the bonus of stability. Would you really want her to come back solely because she can't make it on her own or because she needs you to provide the living? Do you want to be her fallback plan?

[Heimlich]

I mean living your life without always considering what ramifications your actions have on your wife.

Sir,

It takes a while to get here, but JM points out where we all need to be. This is hard. From Oct of 90 to a few months ago, I didn't make a decision without thinking about my W. I've noticed over the past 2 monhts, I do what I want to do because I want to do it.

Also, it takes a while to truly detach. Don't beat yourself up over not being detached, but, you do have to stop analyzing your W's actions. Trust me. Trust JM. Trust yourself. You'll drive yourself bonkers. As you've done, note positives and acknowledge them, especially if they're different from past behaviors. I half-kiddingly started telling myself maybe my W was in a good mood because all of the lights were green, she finished something up at work, she heard a good joke, she just had the best O of her life with OM, you just don't know. So, don't worry about it. If the positive interactions continue, becoming a trend, that's good, but don't focus on her. Do your thing, whatever that is.

Talking to your FIL. Why not just say something like, "I wanted to speak with you about your D and the way that I feel about her and want to make the M succeed. I've realized, though, that putting you in the middle isn't fair to you, me, or W." Dunno, something along those lines.

BD

PS. Brit, bite me, you lucky git

[SirPrizeMe]

Just_ME,
I appreciate the input,

do I want to be her fallback plan? It seems like a confrontational way to phrase the question. Hmm, let me table that for a moment.

For me, It sure seems ok to me if there's some reality creeping into the equation.

I think you said you jump around the forums quite a bit, and you don't have a deep understanding of everybody's sitch. In my case I feel like there's a bunch of stuff that hasn't made a ton of sense.

Eg, while I was still in the house, she'd tell me that the OM is not the one for her, but yet in the next breath she reminded me that she still calls him.

Or, she changes the locks on the house and then offers to tell me where the key is.

Yes, at this point in time, or at some point in time, obviously she wants out of the marriage more than she wants stability . I get that. But is it a reasoned, calm decision? Is it really the best thing for her and the kids? She has been an expert avoider for a long time. Is this just more avoidance?

She had all the stuff I am offering (stability, motherhood, a supportive partner - the proverbial american dream) and then went ker-pow: The affair. I take my share of credit for allowing our R to get to that point, where an affair would be something she could even consider. In the early days, after the bomb, she professed that she never wanted to leave me, that she didn't understand why she did what she did, etc. But somehow the rift never healed.

She is a child of an alcoholic, child of divorce. Hated her father for years, because he abandoned the family. Turns out it was her mother who had an affair. Could it be that there are still some unresolved issues there for her? At this point, is divorce really the best path for our children and for her?

I am trying to be the attractive person she wants to be with. I am working on myself.

Getting back to the question about being the fallback plan: for now, if it meant putting the D on hold and learning to grow together again over time, yes, I would accept that. Is that a fallback plan? Maybe. Or maybe it's just reconsidering. Maybe that is called "Reconciliation."

Just_me, you seem to have a bunch of comments, to me and to other people on other threads, in the domain of "face reality, people!" Some of which seem overly negative, which I think is absolutely not a DB principle. Or am I getting it wrong?

If a woman is mussing her man's hair, that is a sign of affection. Sure you can read too much into it, but it is positive, not non-negative.

In the same way, when W goes out of her way to see me, that is positive. Sure I can imagine all sorts of negative scenarios (she's romping in bed with OM on his bday, and she's coming to see me to make sure I don't go to the house) but does that help me in DBing? That's what I mean, all this "look on the dark side" stuff, seems to be counter to the PMA principle.

[SirPrizeMe]

Wow, this is harder than I thought.

I like your advice on the letter to FIL, though.

[Heimlich]

Sir,

It's not look at the dark side, but also not to hide your head in the sand either. We're all our own experts, stuff that works for one, might not work for another. You have to find your own way. That said, there's enough commonality in the success stories that bear out that: not pushing, GAL/doing your own thing/being happy in yourself, being polite/friendly/kind to the WAS while not allowing yourself to be a doormat all work.

The reality that JM and I are trying to point out to you is that analyzing/thinking about WHY your W is doing things is pointless. Again, note the positives, because they can be important and small milestones. However, until your W wants to talk to you, you don't have a married relationship with her. That's the reality. I think it's DB/DR (the books get all jumbled in my head these days) that says think of the worst that can happen -- you get divorced. Look at it in the face. Accept it as one possible outcome. Then move along and do what's required to keep that from happening. THat's not being negative, at least to me, that's being practical and realistic.

That make sense?

BD