A question for the ladies

[SouthernGirl]

If marriage is a commitment, why do I have to tend the fences? and why was I lectured on that? *tap tap tap* (rhetorical) SG implied she tends her own fences, but explicitly told me that the affair was "inevitible"...*headscratch* does that mean she has had one, or that she is going to have one at some point? Inquiring minds want to know... I know, I know, the whole sexual fidelity thing is soooo blown out of proportion by us men.

Almost missed this. I only vaguely remember my wording during that particular conversation and if I said the affair was "inevitable" I misspoke. Of course it wasn't inevitable. But if one person fails to tend fences it becomes a heck of a lot more likely.

If it's of interest to you I have never cheated on any man and don't plan to start with my husband. That said, I am not naive enough say it could never happen. Which is why I tend fences. My own, in particular, but I also lean against his from time to time. I haven't found a weak spot yet, but I may, at some point, and they will then need tending.

Marriage is a garden. Flowers and sunshine, but also weeding and fences to keep out critters that trample on tender plants.

I didn't invent the game, you know. But I do play it.

[blackfoot]

Intimacy and love go hand in hand, yes. But sometimes it's ugly BF. H and I have been through all sorts of ugly behavior and will continue to go through it in the future.

Reading that actually gives me a warm fuzzy. LFL you are a real trooper, when you and I landed here around the same time, you really caught both barrels from me. *cracks up*

I agree. sometimes it is ugly. Your right, you and Mr dont have rose colored glasses. I have a question for you. Do your get rejected still? If not, do you show desire? Or do you just want to receive it? Showing desire is easy when the glasses are on. its probably unavoidable. Thats the point. They are off for both of you and you are still there. Are you happy with your choice? do you show it?

I know you wouldn't do it BF, but that is you.
I dont think that was accurate, but I wont quibble cause it is now.

You made a point in a later post that you need Control

I couldnt find this. I did say I will not be controlled. There is a difference.
Also the results when I took back control were pretty positive.*nod* really positive.

You cannot control another person, I have no desire too, and that is actually where I get stuck. Doing what works as opposed to doing what is pysch healthy.

Do I trust my H? Not really. Does he trust me? Very doubtful. And that's ok. I wouldn't have given that answer years ago, but now...I do. I have to if I want this M to survive. I don't have control. Neither does he. We either stick this out together...or we don't. Scary but true.

Nice.

And I still want/need desire, dammit.
There she is.

Do you give demonstrations of desire-- not how you want him to demonstate it- but how he would recognize it?

[MJontheMend]

We weren't talking about me... this started with the comments you were making about Rs, respect and intimacy in general. Somewhere along the line you started personalizing. But... since you've brought it up... you're right in your assessment. Probably. Feel better? Af for the PWed? Dunno. Never have been myself, so it would be impossible for me to ascertain. Given that I really haven't nailed this R stuff down, I really don't know.

Clearly, you don't need my help to defend yourself- lol- but I just wanted to chime in with the fact that BF can't possibly understand how different it is to try to date and/or form a relationship when you are a middle-aged mother of adolescents who is dating men in their 40s/50s who have been around the block and been burnt quite probably more than just once or twice. It's like trying to fit a life-complicated puzzle piece to your own life-complicated puzzle piece and also deal with the fact that your puzzle pieces are kind of bent-up and frazzled from being shoved into wrong shaped holes for so long and then you stop and ask yourself "Why am I doing this?" or "What am I doing?" because you don't even know what the picture is supposed to look like when you're done putting the puzzle together.

Further note: The 75% of all divorces are filed by women is a lame statistic when used in the manner BF suggested. Clearly, the reason that 75% of all divorces are filed by women is the same reason that 75% of all wedding invitations are picked out by women and 75% of all checks for electric bills are signed and mailed by women.

[Imconfused0807]

Further note: The 75% of all divorces are filed by women is a lame statistic when used in the manner BF suggested. Clearly, the reason that 75% of all divorces are filed by women is the same reason that 75% of all wedding invitations are picked out by women and 75% of all checks for electric bills are signed and mailed by women.

Because 75% of women are control freaks ??? Ok, I'm going now...{as IC quickly scurries out of the room...dodging flying plates, vases and whatever else is handily available to be thrown }

[LustForLife]

Reading that actually gives me a warm fuzzy. LFL you are a real trooper, when you and I landed here around the same time, you really caught both barrels from me. *cracks up*

Well, you and I have had our moments. We can be like oil and water at times but most of the time I think we meld together nicely. Maybe like oil and vinegar instead.
Thanks for the words.

I have a question for you. Do your get rejected still? If not, do you show desire? Or do you just want to receive it? Showing desire is easy when the glasses are on. its probably unavoidable. Thats the point. They are off for both of you and you are still there. Are you happy with your choice? do you show it?

I don't know if I want to get into all this. I'll just say we are still having sex about once a month and frankly I think it's been about two months. I'm not initiating. He does. It's good when we have it. No fights about it at all. It just is what it is and I don't have it in me to force something else.

You made a point in a later post that you need Control

I couldnt find this. I did say I will not be controlled. There is a difference.
Also the results when I took back control were pretty positive.*nod* really positive.

Semantics. Need control/not be controlled. Two sides of the same coin. I still think you are going to hurt yourself in the long run with this attitude. It may have worked short term but I don't think it's a long term R/M solution. JMHO

You cannot control another person, I have no desire too, and that is actually where I get stuck. Doing what works as opposed to doing what is pysch healthy.

I hear ya. I can't follow my own advice half the time.

Do you give demonstrations of desire-- not how you want him to demonstate it- but how he would recognize it?

Honestly? Probably not. We had our company Christmas party last night and I was dressed HOT if I do say so myself.
Short skirt, F-me pumps, hair up off my neck (the way he likes it) and he definitely showed desire. I did too. We were flirty with each other. But when we got home...nothing. We both reverted to our "normal" selves. I put on my flannel pjs (don't laugh, I get cold) and he did whatever the heck he was doing. Who knows. We can't stay in a "desirous" groove for long at all. It's all too depressing. But I'm really ok with it. I think.

LFL

[Corri]

Mo:

Amen, Mo.

Further note: The 75% of all divorces are filed by women is a lame statistic when used in the manner BF suggested. Clearly, the reason that 75% of all divorces are filed by women is the same reason that 75% of all wedding invitations are picked out by women and 75% of all checks for electric bills are signed and mailed by women.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!! Guffaw, whewwwwweeee!!!!

Oh. My. Side. Can't. Breathe.

[blackfoot]

And why would I want to share my self and accept another with my eyes wide open after a few beers and a charming smile

I havent met anyone who does or can .. myabe after a few milligrams of MDMA... but the government frowns on that, and pfizer cant make any money off of it. Patent expired.

I love it when men tell me how I feel

I know Seriously this is the 3rd time at least that you have tried to start this convo. I can go pull threads and quotes if you like. All of them made some comment pointing to the fact that I am not in a LTR, as if that is some sort of standard to be held to. It is for some things... but I am not a woman, and I wont be forced into a womans frame of referance. so you avoid intimacy with your long distance R, and enjoy your serial monogamy, and Ill be happy for you, and not try to convince you my way is better, and Ill avoid intimacy in my way. You and Mojo can lead your men on and I wont say one thing about it, the NG's and GP's of the world are big boys, just dont try to convince me your way is better coming from my direction.

Unless of course you ladies are entering these R's with INTENT. I think we had that convo allready.

Those actions clearly state you don't want an LTR, and do a fine job of avoiding them all together Yes. they do. Im not leading anyone on, talking about fake futures. in fact when she started up the fake fantasy talk, I interjected with 'hey lets go talk to a lawyer about prenups'. youd think someone pissed in her wheaties.

you get on here saying what women want in a mate No. Ive talked about attraction and what women want to feel desire. according to mojo, women want to pair bond with a provider/protector. A tool (pardon the pun) to facilitate her baby making desire.
her biggest motivation for a mate is children no. her biggest desire is children. If she has had children, then she doesnt need a tool anymore, she can go chase her desire. her children are not necessarily from mating with her provider/protector choice, she got what she wanted, and its her little secret.
LFL said Need control/not be controlled. Two sides of the same coin. I still think you are going to hurt yourself in the long run with this attitude. It may have worked short term but I don't think it's a long term R/M solution. JMHO

and thats probably very very true. I dont agree with the hurting myself part, but the rest I actually completely agree with it. x verified it pretty unequivocally. I always got the feeling x just wanted me for a college fling, and as soon as I dropped into the provider role, she banged the dominant guy. Mission accomplished, I got played, my congratulations to her. so we are starting to flesh out the female version a M/W a little more. womens inability to integrate their conflicting desire/need for 'dominant' and 'provider'. I know which side I have been succesful on and that side gives me what I want.

you've got it figured out and are doing fine on your own, so why do you keep asking my opinion?
just curious if you can spot yourself trying to squeeze a man into a feminine frame. since you keep trying, apparently not. then again, maybe you want to try, but not be succesful.

Snort. And what one woman has had a chance to?
a couple.

That is my most favorite conversation in the whole wide world by the way....

the one that starts with the accusation that I am a commitment phobe. snort.

I'm not sure where you are getting that from anything I've said. And really, why would you care if I thought you were one or not anyway?

oh, this wasnt about you, just the word commitment jogged my memory, about the dozen or so times women try to use a word I can recognize and respect to try and force me into a box. I just ask them to define commitment now and then they get angry and tell me 'you just dont get it' and flounce off, at least untill they realize Im not following.
and that takes care of that attempt to manipulate me.

Sometimes a partner who's terrified of rejection and the uncertainty of new love will choose to end a relationship very early. A person who does this is usually at an insecure time in his or her life or is still hurting from a previous rejecting relationship. By seizing the pivotal role of rejecter

I wouldnt be able to do what I do with who I do, if rejection bothered me. Im not uncertain about new love at all. I dont reject, it would defeat the purpose of what I do. Im a builder, not a wrecker. (and I dont placate to end the R mojo. I did in my M, on accident at first, but I was being a P/A pr!ck at the end. It wouldnt be honest, and I just cant stomach it. It makes me nauseous.)
I should turn in my Life Card, give up the game, throw up my hands... quit? I hope not. take the hairshirt off. (IC, and HD join blackfoot in waiting for corri to remove her hairshirt. any bets on leather or lace, underneath? I got my fingers crossed for neither, LOL. ) bitter for you XH? I think not. Im not even bitter about mine. I hope x has beautiful babies and is having lots of willing sex with her new H.

Because we are all fallible, and we fck up, and we hurt each other, and we cry. Fine. Yep. No problems with that. 50/50 means I take care of my fences and she takes care of her fences. I guarantee she cannot maintain my fences. and if she steps out of our fence, Im going to mend it instantly and she will be outside the fence, free to start her own farm.
Im done belaboring the fences.

There is no bending with you Thank you. see I can learn this integrated male stuff. seriously, not when it comes to adultery. I dont understand the men who live in their basement while their W brings home OM. boggles my mind.

Rs are not a business, no matter how much you'd like for it to be No they are not. and I dont have a problem with R's, I dont want women to be men. Im not to shabby at em. I figured out how to do it in the midst of a affair, this...now... with no stress and pressure... piece of cake.
We were talking about Marriage though and that IS a business, or you wouldnt be agreeing to and signing a corporate partnership. The parting gift rules are not very 'partnership' oriented. A lot of times men want to get married so they dont have to play the game anymore. Not me. Ill happily play and when I get tired, Ill leave. Women want to marry me so they can trap me with my word and honor, things they dont ken or feel obliged by.

I wonder how many 18, 19 year old boys who in the middle of a fire fight said, when the blood and guts where flying and oozing, "I didnt know what I was doing, I was too young to sign my life away to the government". probably more then a few. I wondered how it worked out for them and their team when they either started pointing their guns at each other, or threw down their guns and ran away. lol.

as for women who wished or told their man to leave her alone and go have an affair or find a f**k buddy.... well dont say things you dont mean unless you have a guy who can read your mind. Then again, maybe you did mean what you said. He did, and you got your desire back. Personally Ive spent a lot of effort getting out of the habit of telling OP thats not what they mean. I still slip up a lot. its just easier then asking. LOL. still It smacks of something.... In fact its been very eye opening doing exactly what women tell me to do. Who knew, they do know what they need.

BF can't possibly understand how different it is to try to date and/or form a relationship when you are a middle-aged mother of adolescents who is dating men in their 40s/50s who have been around the block and been burnt quite probably more than just once or twice.

poor poor mojo. yeah. I cant understand. One of my friends is 37 with a 18 y.o. daughter who is pregnant. (not by me) You made a choice. even if I couldnt understand, it was still your choice. I actually like the 40ish set. we meet, have a nice time, the drama stays on the stage where it belongs. no come rescue me nonsense. Their busy, they like schedules. Not like the younger ones who like to pop in unexpectedly or even when told not too. LOL.

returning this thread to its original intent, look at the actions, and youll see the answer. I dont see that as being a wrong or bad thing. You are what you it.

[blackfoot]

We were flirty with each other. But when we got home...nothing. We both reverted to our "normal" selves. I put on my flannel pjs

we both reverted to our selves... Flannel PJ's? Im not laughing, Im sure you get cold. What would have happened if you went to bed with no PJ's and snuggled for warmth?

What is with people and wearing clothes too bed? NO CLOTHES IN THE GODD#MN BED!!!

you know LFL, I very very rarely have anything that causes me to feel desire, (dont tell anyone) but if I didnt tap that area and generate the feeling and show desire, nothing would ever happen. Once I tap it and get the energy going it will continue from the feedback. emotional energies feed off of each other.

[Corri]

BF:

All of them made some comment pointing to the fact that I am not in a LTR, as if that is some sort of standard to be held to.

Oooohhhhh. I see. No... my comment came from this thread directly, and no, I don't think you should be in an LTR, but... then again... that's just MY opinion, and it won't even buy a cup of coffee. {Maybe it would, my opinions, if I sang them, a little off key... and a pouty lip...}

ut I am not a woman, and I wont be forced into a womans frame of referance. so you avoid intimacy with your long distance R, and enjoy your serial monogamy, and Ill be happy for you, and not try to convince you my way is better, and Ill avoid intimacy in my way.

Deal.

no. her biggest desire is children. If she has had children, then she doesnt need a tool anymore, she can go chase her desire. her children are not necessarily from mating with her provider/protector choice, she got what she wanted, and its her little secret.

If her desire is to have children, and she already has children... she is free to chase her desire... but her desire is children... I'm confused.

I always got the feeling x just wanted me for a college fling, and as soon as I dropped into the provider role, she banged the dominant guy. Mission accomplished, I got played, my congratulations to her.

"I got played." Sounds like my version of he should have known better and I was too young. Different words. Same 20/20 hindsight observation. IMO.

just curious if you can spot yourself trying to squeeze a man into a feminine frame. since you keep trying, apparently not. Then again, maybe you want to try, but not be succesful.

Touche.

I hope not. take the hairshirt off. (IC, and HD join blackfoot in waiting for corri to remove her hairshirt. any bets on leather or lace, underneath? I got my fingers crossed for neither, LOL. )

I did. And what lies beneath is my little secret.

bitter for you XH? I think not. Im not even bitter about mine.

That's not how your last post sounded. At least to me. If you're not bitter, you're not bitter, and I'll take your word for it.

Yep. No problems with that. 50/50 means I take care of my fences and she takes care of her fences. I guarantee she cannot maintain my fences. and if she steps out of our fence, Im going to mend it instantly and she will be outside the fence, free to start her own farm. Im done belaboring the fences.

Welp. It's the first time I actually understood your 'fence' analogy, quite honestly. what with you being so clear and direct and all, I must have been obtuse.

I wonder how many 18, 19 year old boys who in the middle of a fire fight said, when the blood and guts where flying and oozing, "I didnt know what I was doing, I was too young to sign my life away to the government". probably more then a few. I wondered how it worked out for them and their team when they either started pointing their guns at each other, or threw down their guns and ran away. lol.

Probably a bit like a farmer who never expected to get shat on, I'd say, even though he bought a farm. j/k

[RealJourney]

as for women who wished or told their man to leave her alone and go have an affair or find a f**k buddy.... well dont say things you dont mean unless you have a guy who can read your mind. Then again, maybe you did mean what you said. He did, and you got your desire back. Personally Ive spent a lot of effort getting out of the habit of telling OP thats not what they mean. I still slip up a lot. its just easier then asking. LOL.

Well, I can tell you, I didn't mean what I said. I said the statement once, in a rare argument about the sex ( well, the lack of), since my H is a conflict avoider. I am usually the pursuer, but on this particular area, obviously I was a confict avoider as well. Not good. I wanted the issue to go away at the moment, so I threw out some stupid stuff. The A didn't happen until a few years later, but those words stayed with him, and maybe he wanted them to. He wasn't looking to figure me out and help...he wanted what he wanted. The seeds of an affair were most likely starting to develop, and he was testing me too. You have to understnad, BF, that the testing goes in both directions; it happens with both men and women...for a recent exapmle here on the board, look at Balto's desire to see some jealousy in his W.

still It smacks of something.... In fact its been very eye opening doing exactly what women tell me to do. Who knew, they do know what they need.

Well, women still don't know what they need...even our bright star Corri is confused...but it's good you are letting go. Notice how I said I wished my H did understand me more and help me, but that's really not accurate. If he had done that, it would have seemed too paternal for me. I kind I wish he figured it out and kept steady to himself, til I found a way to get to a better mind state. Make sense?