Update: I want to Salavage my Marriage

[PhD_ChrisD]

Hi All,

I just don't get it. My W wants to work on our M, we go to MC, and she promises not to stay out all night. Then she does just that. She left last night, and still not home at 10:30AM.

I just don't know what to think. I don't want to be controlling but I don't want to be walked on either. I know my kids are upset that mom "leaves" all the time.

This is just so confusing to me.

Best,
--Chris

[SuperDad]

Chris,
To make it short:

- She needs to go to IC.

- You need to tell your side of the story to the C.

- I cannot see how MC is going to help until she deals with her issues.

My $.02. Worth what you paid for it!!

Good Luck,
SD

[Heimlich]

Chris,

SD has a good point about IC for your W.

Since you started MC, has she gone out a lot, less frequently, or is this the first time in a while?

Is she generally friendlier towards you than she had been?

Still on track to start wearing rings again tomorrow?

Any way to put a bug in the MC's ear to have him talk to your W about the impact of her being out on the children. Coming from you, as i think you realize, it's almost certainly going to be seen as controlling.

Hang in there,

BD

[IAChild]

Chris,

Just stumbled across your thread, and couldn't help but make a few comments, hoping to pay you some of the favors the "tribal elders" paid to me when I first stumbled onto this site.

1) ASSuming you've read the book, I'm not seeing anything about your goals. I'm reading you writing a lot about your W, but not about yourself. So, bucko...how about it? Where are your goals?


2) I'd be very careful about the IC thing for your W. If you get bored sometime, feel freel to read over some of my old threads, but H2B and I went through counseling just before the bomb, and he did some IC. We both went into C together with the goal of repairing the R. Didn't happen, and I still contend that C/C'r led to the demise of R1. If you are going to do counseling and DR at the same time, you *really* need to get a C who understands the DR principles.

3) The age difference between you and your W is the same as between me and H2B (only reversed...I'm older). When H2B was detaching from me, he spent a LOT of time hanging out with a bunch of 20-something friends from work...partying, playing video games, doing a bunch of college kid crap. I think part of it was, while not exactly a MLC, it was perhaps his way of running away from being mid-30's. That might be some of what W is doing in her partying. There's nothing you can do about it.

DR is not about controlling the S. It's about controlling yourself. I know some of this stuff is stupendously crappy for kids involved, and I'm sorry that your kids are being hurt by her behavior. I would encourage you to look up the threads of Koshka and FiatLux and Just_Me to get some ideas about remaining a centered father in the face of all of this. While Koshka and FiatLux did not ultimately bust their divorce, they are DR success stories just the same, and all three of these men are heroes in my book when it comes to fathering in the face of crumbling R's. (Just-Me reconciled and now his W posts here too!)

Also, im'ing is one of the ways H2B and I kept in touch, even through the tough times, and it did help us rebuild eventually! Yay!!!

And, just curious...what's your PhD in?

Martha

[IAChild]

Chris,

Just stumbled across your thread, and couldn't help but make a few comments, hoping to pay you some of the favors the "tribal elders" paid to me when I first stumbled onto this site.

1) ASSuming you've read the book, I'm not seeing anything about your goals. I'm reading you writing a lot about your W, but not about yourself. So, bucko...how about it? Where are your goals?


2) I'd be very careful about the IC thing for your W. If you get bored sometime, feel freel to read over some of my old threads, but H2B and I went through counseling just before the bomb, and he did some IC. We both went into C together with the goal of repairing the R. Didn't happen, and I still contend that C/C'r led to the demise of R1. If you are going to do counseling and DR at the same time, you *really* need to get a C who understands the DR principles.

3) The age difference between you and your W is the same as between me and H2B (only reversed...I'm older). When H2B was detaching from me, he spent a LOT of time hanging out with a bunch of 20-something friends from work...partying, playing video games, doing a bunch of college kid crap. I think part of it was, while not exactly a MLC, it was perhaps his way of running away from being mid-30's. That might be some of what W is doing in her partying. There's nothing you can do about it.

DR is not about controlling the S. It's about controlling yourself. I know some of this stuff is stupendously crappy for kids involved, and I'm sorry that your kids are being hurt by her behavior. I would encourage you to look up the threads of Koshka and FiatLux and Just_Me to get some ideas about remaining a centered father in the face of all of this. While Koshka and FiatLux did not ultimately bust their divorce, they are DR success stories just the same, and all three of these men are heroes in my book when it comes to fathering in the face of crumbling R's. (Just-Me reconciled and now his W posts here too!)

Also, im'ing is one of the ways H2B and I kept in touch, even through the tough times, and it did help us rebuild eventually! Yay!!!

And, just curious...what's your PhD in?

Martha

[PhD_ChrisD]

Heya SD,

I do think she needs IC. We are in comcplete agreeance here. Even the MC suggested it.

MC knows my side of the story for the most part. However, he knows that I was a controlling husband for many years and does think that W is spinning and needs to find a healthy balance.

Overall, I think things are better. Certainly a big improvement from this summer.

Best,

--Chris

[PhD_ChrisD]

Heya Heim,

Yes, I do think she needs some C for her issues. However, I am not going to push it. Baby steps is what got me so far.

Since MC, she has gone out a lot less frequently. She is doing better around the house. Overall, a lot better than weeks and months ago.

Yes, still on track to wear the rings tomorrow! Honestly, just the symbolism behind it makes me very happy. I will be much more comfortable with her going out if she at least wears her ring. I won't tell her that though, she will say it is me showing ownership or something.

Also, I think you are right about the impact on the kids and me saying that stuff. She will be quick to say I am using the kids. The MC did bring it up today (in passing, no a focal point) that if she wants to be a good mom and a good wife, there has to be balance.

I am hanging! You do the same.

Best,

--Chris

[PhD_ChrisD]

Hi IAChild,

Thanks for your input, very insightful. Tribal elders are always welcome in my little corner of cyber-DR space!

So yes, I have goals. I want to:
1) keep my critism/lecturing/smarty-pants mouth shut.
2) Not be controlling of my W, but let her be her own person.
3) Be the Dad that my 2 babies deserve.
4) Make our house an safe and enjoyable place for all of us.
5) Quit snooping/observing her behavior to the point where it upsets me.
I had set some goals previously in posts long ago (summer seems ages ago) and pretty much hit all of them. However, the more esoteric ones such as controlling behavior require a lot of work.

Well, I hope this C can do the job for us. He seems to be making progress for us. I don't know if he is a DB/DR fellow, but he seems to follow (or at least parallel) the program to a large extent.

As far as her MLC or what ever it is: I know there is nothing I can do but let her spin. When she overdoes it, we have agreed that I can (1 time) state my concerns. Our MC lined that up for us: I cannot harp/condem/criticise/command/etc. and she has to listen to my concerns. Funny thing is: she knows she does wrong and freely admits it, she just somehow keeps doing it. I just hope she finds that happy medium she is seraching for before she kills herself or someone else. I do think the age difference is a factor. She has recently made a few references to me being 40 now (old).

My PhD (I am actively ABD) is in Organization and Management/Information Technology Management. Isn't that just the perfect thing for a control freak? Everyday I fight the urge to design a Gantt Chart for our M recovery!

Again, thanks for your insights. I am going to look up the three (Kosha, Fiatlux, and Just-Me) posters you recommended.

I do have one question: What is H2B? I am inferring that it is your WAS/Returned WAS but the specific acroynym is confusing.

Best,

--Chris

[IAChild]

Chris,

Sounds like you have some great goals. I'm going to try to help by pushing them just a tad:

1) keep my critism/lecturing/smarty-pants mouth shut.

Break this one down -- what actions do you need to do to accomplish this? Give examples/scenarios.

2) Not be controlling of my W, but let her be her own person.

I would argue (a little Socratic method here, if I may) that the very fact you made the statement, "...let her be her own person," implies that you still have some control issues via the word "let". "Let" implies that you are still in control, and somehow giving her permission? Some food for thought.

3) Be the Dad that my 2 babies deserve.

Specific steps, please.

4) Make our house an safe and enjoyable place for all of us.

Specific steps, please.

5) Quit snooping/observing her behavior to the point where it upsets me.

Drop the last part of this goal, "...to the point where it upsets me." This implies that you will still snoop. Snooping will ALWAYS upset you. Just say NO.

My PhD (I am actively ABD) is in Organization and Management/Information Technology Management. Isn't that just the perfect thing for a control freak? Everyday I fight the urge to design a Gantt Chart for our M recovery!

O-M-G!! I know what a Gantt chart is! I'm a bit of a quality geek, thanks to my H2B! I'm completing my Masters in Public Administration/emphasis on Health and Human Services. My research practicum will be related to applying Lean/Lean Sigma to patient care delivery...probably throughput in a an ambulatory clinic or may the OR. I'm also a member of ASQ, and recently passed my CMQ/OE exam. H2B was an ISO guy, auditor, Sr. Process Engineer and is now a Sr. Auditor (or something like that). He's created trend charts to 1) track weight loss in the past, and 2) monitor his golf game!

What is H2B?

"H2B" is hubby to be. He was my SO (significant other); we split; I DB'd my rear-end off; we reconciled less than a year later; this past summer he proposed.

I'd also like to ask what other books you are reading to help you in your journey. H2B and I are big fans of Mars/Venus because it gave us a basic lexicon and understanding of our gender differences. Perhaps your lecturing/smarty-pants mouth is your Mr. Fixit coming out? Might be worth looking into.

Okay...'nuff for now. I need to get busy!

[Heimlich]

OK, folks. I edit an IT-oriented pub, enough with the Gantt charts and sigma talk -- you're making me realize how much work I've got to do.

Speaking of Gantt chart, seriously, Chris, if that's how you think (EGADS!), what's wrong with designing one for yourself about your steps/goals/what you want to accomplish? (Just hide it from your W.)

I need to revisit my goals as well.

BD