She was definitely set on this a 10 days ago. Small things make me wonder if she is seeing her life. Like unhappiness when picking-up 5D after basically not seeing her for 5 days. It wasn't my presence. Mass apologies last night. She could have just ignored call. Reconsideration of meeting instead of just saying NO to everything in her papers, etc.
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You need to be careful here
You are definitely right. If she sees that I have best interests of 5D in my heart, then maybe she will not see this as stalling.
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What are you going to do with this time that is going to make the difference?
I think time is what she needs to see her life, my life, and 5D. I will be countinuing to GAL during the time. She just is not convinced of changes and 180's yet. She is definitely seeing changes/moving-on such as, church, lack of booze, things I am doing with 5D, cooking, 2 cats, put up x-mas tree, outside x-mas lights (definite change and I did it in a way she knows I don't like). She also will not forgive or forget the last straw when I hollered to her in a tone that is just wrong. If she can do that, then everything else can easily be worked out. She just thinks it is too much.
I actually got to address the last straw on Sunday. She said she cannot be with anyone that would do that. I said good, because that man doesn't exist anymore. She then started in on all the things she has wanted me to do, such as church, and I was able to say on every point I am doing it's now that's how I want to live my life. She knows it. Maybe not convinced it's permanent or just doesn't want to look.
I really wish I knew how I could have addressed the paragraph above better. Especially when she started listing things she wanted me to do in the past and the 180's that address them for me now.
Time, consistency, and patience on your part are going to make all the difference in your situation. It will take time for her to see that you are a different person. You can't just tell her and expect her to believe it. You have to be consistent because if you aren't she won't really believe that you've changed. I think that you're on the right track, you just need to have patience and let her work things out for herself.
Me: 29 W: 28 T: 10 M: 7 No kids 2 Dogs and 1 Cat With Parents: 09/16/07 Apartment: 10/13/07 Back Home: ~2/16/2008
I know you are right. It is just difficult because of her race for the D. That's why I want to meet like once a week to work on papers. Gives us both time to consider the ramifactions of our decisions especially with 5D.
JM, Avoiding writing for work, so I'll chime in. In a way, the marriage license or your divorce papers are just that -- paper. Just because you get divorced, doesn't mean you can't eventually reconcile. Besides, in your W's mind, your M is over.
FYI, I tracked down Just_Me's thread about a month ago. He did get divorced and remarried. So he's coming from been there, done that.
BD
My latest
Me: 36 W: 35 2 D: 9 and 5 T: 16 years M: 12 10/4/06: Bomb 10/5/06: Ended A 4/22/07: ILYBNILWY
I understand. Seems to me, wife should at least be able to say why. Yo-Yo of different reasons everytime it comes up. Really nobody knows why. Just what she wants. She does not even know why. Just seems more time, space, and vision to see her, mine, and 5D new lifes.
Yep, W should be able to say why. Many don't. Mine didn't. Sucks, but, what can you really do? You push and you push them away. It takes time, but eventually the detachment and the "do I really want them back" will start kicking in.
BD
My latest
Me: 36 W: 35 2 D: 9 and 5 T: 16 years M: 12 10/4/06: Bomb 10/5/06: Ended A 4/22/07: ILYBNILWY
eventually the detachment and the "do I really want them back" will start kicking in.
Well, she is not beating my door down. Like I said above, I see that she is starting to consider things and not just say NO to everything. Such as us meeting to discuss legal stuff. Another part of conversation Sunday, which was a lot of paper/R talk, was my request to seek LRC/LMFT for 5D and for her to help pick them. She was against it at the beginning of conversation. One reason was simply the Licensed MARRIAGE part of the title making her say NO. When I addressed it as concern for our 5D being torn apart and illustrated why, she said "ok, fine" when brought up again 30 minutes later. Another small reconsideration. All very small but steps.
As I consider her "standing-me up" last night, I feel 1) our conversation will be a lot more R talk than previously expected and 2) she will 'cave' on a lot in her papers to get the D. I just don't see meeting to say "I won't do that" repeatedly.
I read a post about detachment and how someone just decided not to continue their efforts. Somehow, this gives me a bit more comfort about my restraunt meeting w/ WAW. Seems this is the right attitude to have with the validating, understanding, etc mind-set. To remove your emotion and think as if you were them. I guess not thinking with your heart. If I were more detached then I think this would be easier. If I keep my focus on 5D, then I'll be able to validate, understand, etc WAW the way I need to do.
New plan for meeting. 1) Very brief...I understand this is what you want (re:D) and basically nothing else. Not the novel before...Want to tell her thank you for opening my eyes and do best for 5D...about it. 2) If she apologizes again, Just say do not worry about, maybe luck into saying we just do not communicate to each other. Big luck bring up R and communication 3) Basically just listen. 4) She will probably ask what I want in papers...So, I need to have topics in mind to steer conversation. 5) Make it clear that I need time to consider what we have decided so far regarding 5D. Could even say that I had made plans for later this evening before she missed prior meeting. Definitely leave restraunt first. 6) Keep focus on 5D and basically try very hard to detach from her. To not consider she and I, just 5D and I. 7) Only consider she and I, if she brings it up, yet validate and understand her feelings when she does disagrees with legal points or anything else for that matter. Like missing 5D or something.
Well I was in the detached mode for meeting yesterday. I really got a lot out of thinking about detaching. I still love WAW but I know I can live without her and if I were to make a list of positives and negatives it would be mostly negative or nothing to put. So, I was thinking correctly. No pursuing, begging, whinning, etc...very much accepting of sitch.
When I arrived at restraunt, I saw her in her car. But I just got out of my truck and headed inside. Basically, just not noticing. I went and held door for other people saw her and we went in. Didn't speak at door, in-line, or at table until I asked how was her day about 1/2 way through dinner. I was whistling piped music and cheerful until seated when I was quiet. Prayed before dinner. It was buffet style so I finished praying as she was sitting. This is a 180 b/c I didn't pray before dinner prior to separation. Funny, she ordered pepsi and I got tea both 180's for us. When talking during dinner it was pleasant. She talked about her day and I listened well. Really was interested and asked questions to understand her story better. Did not offer solutions or anything just listened and related. Spoke of some of my days and she listened and related to a story from her day. Wish we could have done this all night ...BUT...we were done with dinner and so she said lets get started.
So, I then began with my "opening statement". I understand you want this. I want you to know that I forgive you for what has happened and what will happen. I really want to thank you. I really do want to thank you for opening my eyes to my past and what I want for my future. I know you think I try to be perfect, but in this case we need to strive to our very best because it will effect the rest of a 5 year olds life."
She then stated something to the effect like she would have papers revised for tomorrow. I said I do not think you can plan a 5 year old life at one dinner. We will need to time to consider things. Topic one was me picking up 5D when she could not. In short, she wanted to think about it. I used it to illustrate we needed to think and would not finish tonight. Meeting continued, but to shorten message I will list as positive/negative from DB/DR point of view.
Positives 1) When it came out that we could not even communicate on meeting day, I got to validate her by saying I understood when she talked to friends and family you were trying to cope and not hurt me. I understand that when you asked for counseling you were not talking about laundry or dishes but something much deeper. And that is why I need to learn to communicate better. 2) She got angry about my mother. I got to say I understand her feelings. I understood both sides. But you are right mother did not do you right. 3) I want equal time w/ 5D. When she kept on about the non-equal b/c she wants "safety net", I paused for a bit, then said, I hesitate to tell you this because you will think I am pursuing you, which I am not, but I believe you when you say it will be equal like it is now. I trust you and I know you will do it equal. But the papers need to say it because the day you get angry you don't have to do it equally anymore. I had tear in eye. Only time I got remotely emotional. She saw. Perhaps not validating but she was red-eyed. She saw it from the heart. 4)She was shocked that I did not want to include the college funding plan that she wanted. It is a state program. I just think their are better investments. She wants assurance about college and I said I want that for 5D also validating her feelings. 5)She agreed to LRC/LMFT but will not go with me unless counselor needs us. 6) I brought up this year x-mas b/c nothing can be finished for at least 60 days. Offered 23/24th to WAW b/c she does x-mas w/ her family on eve. Then I get 5D 24th at 8:00pm until 26th 8:00pm. She agreed. Then said, that's when Santa comes. I said I know. It's hard. Try putting up x-mas tree. She says she has. I understand, it is so hard. She was very red-eyed almost tears. 7) We did not finish and it was not from dragging... it's because she either does not want to agree or needs time to think. Either way, it is a delay. And we only talked a few things in child custody stuff. No debt talk, no division of asset talk. So, not done is good. Gives her time to see. And as many times as she got red-eyed I think she is beginning beyond today. 8) When possible, I said things that show my detachment like, when I wanted to go to counseling, or I am not pursuing you. I think this is the only approach. I was very detached during this meeting. Never once making any mention of effort to try. I was pleased with this mind-set. It really helped not thinking I love her and stuff like that. 9) She sees changes and even referenced "my thank you" to say how we both made each other miserable. Some positive because she sees me now, yet she is holding on to pain of our past. 10) BIG POSITIVE and it confuses me - When leaving, I commented how I liked her hair how did she do it. It was some complicated french braid with a bun. She asked me why I wanted to know. I said I might try to do 5D hair like that. She started explaining. I did not understand. She then says I'll show you in a minute. We crossed paths in the parking lot headed for vehicles. She then reached back. I instinctively ducked. But she reached out again and ran her hand through my hair at least 3 times illustrating how to fix hair that way. It was first time since we separated she had touched me. 11) After #10, she then talked about 5D and what she was going to do Saturday til 2pm with her. This is my day and I expected to get her at 9am. I didn't understand and told her. She spoke about her Friday plans and Saturday morning stuff. I then said I was thinking of myself. You miss 5D too. I understand your work does not give you much time with her. You have a good time Friday and Saturday and I'll meet her at the event Saturday around noon(she had suggested this later). So, I validated her when initially I could have just blown it. Perhaps, this might just be weak. 12) I was cheerful, calm, pleasant, never raised voice at all. She was the one who spoken with anger and I responded calmer and understanding.
Negatives - very few I think 1)I missed several validation moments to be expected from amateur. 2)At one point, she aggrevated me and I said with head down I know this is you dream now. I later apologized for saying dream that was ugly. She responded with I am use to your "digs" I can take it now I have thick skin. 3)Mentioned MLC when discussing her only looking 1 day ahead...should not have done that. It only invalidates her feelings and makes it seem like she is sick. 4) I should have listened for the validation chances better. It was difficult because she would ask what next. I did ok.
Message still to long...Also learned today that because WAW has completely overlooked our largest debt, this may be financial disaster for wife. I might literally find out how much I am worth LMAO. This won't win her back though. So, not a big help.
I know I can live my life without her. Today, I do not want to. As she has more space, time, and vision, perhaps things will change in her heart and soul. But I know I can make.
