WAW says "I'm filing for D", but no papers

[ann25]

Hey Sir, i say ditto what everyone else said... that sucks!!

Delaying the process will probably just piss her off. Doesn't mean you couldn't take a little time... but really, if she's filed, this is what she wants and the more you stand in her way, the more angry she'll be with you.

There are lots of folks here still working it out after papers were filed. I like reading those. Even worse case senario, there's hope.

This might shatter her little fantasy world in which you pay for her new life. Maybe she'll see that the grass wasn't greener, your side just needed to be watered a little...

Take care...

[lushmd]

Sorry to find you here Sir. FYI, my counselor has advised me to delay as long as possible (basically, to give STBXW ample time to reconsider). Having said that, I'm not sure what I'm going to do (part of me just wants to move on).

[SirPrizeMe]

Thanks, everyone. It sucks. But not totally unexpected.

I'm thinking of advising my attorney to just sit on the "acknowledgement" for a couple days. Then we'll proceed. I'm going to resist passively, I think. Which means, I'm not going to obstruct progress, but I'm not going to hurry it along either. I'll take my time through this process.

The longer it goes the longer I have to show I'm happy and cheerful. Also there will be some serious reckoning, like on the issue of child custody. I'm thinking I Want to co-parent, which I'm guessing will surprise her. I was a very involved Dad, although since I worked she was the primary care-giver. But I don't intend to fade away on the issue of custody. And other reckoning. Anyway, it is movement, which is better than stuck (for me).

Who knows? The financial realities and other reckoning may make a difference. We've got some savings, though, so if we split the assets, she'll even be able to stay in the house longer, if she wants to. Although, this would mean spending her half of the savings down. That's money we were saving for college for 4 bright kids!

For now, I'm going to get an apartment or house, see if I can get the rest of my stuff, get a cellphone for my kids, and basically move onward on the assumption I will be divorced.

I met with my IC for the first time in a while last night. She is a good influence. No DBer, though she is familiar with the book. I wept in her office. (I weep pretty much every day, and it is affecting my work and sleep.) She is advising me to get my ducks in a row, which I think is right. Begin moving on. Get on SSRIs. Join a support group. I can still DB while doing that.

Any other advice?

W is trying to make some money for herself, which is great. She asked me to take the kids for the weekend while she holds her jewelry party, etc. I'm inclined to do it, cheerfully.

I spoke again to W's father. Told him I love his daughter, I love my kids, I think our problems are solvable and I'd like to reconcile with her. He said "Why don't you tell HER that?" Ha. I've told her that many times, she doesn't need to hear it again.

I asked to meet with him in person. He is hesitant to do so. Doesn't want to alienate his daughter I guess. Said he is going to check with her first, before agreeing to meet with me. Strange because he always takes my telephone calls. Not sure why an in-person meeting is different. He said he "doesn't want to make the situation worse." What could be worse? We're in the process of divorcing! Of course if he thinks I really am abusive, then he'd want to protect his daughter from me, naturally... I can understand that.

Is it just more pressure from me? Only indirectly applied? My purpose here is to show him a paper I saw on our desk. She had left the sheet on the desk, after we were S but before she barred me from the house. She attended a support group at her church for women in abusive relationships. The paper is a checklist of 20 questions to determine if you are in an abusive R. 7 or more yesses means abuse. She answered yes to 16 of em (according to her markup on the page). The thing is, I don't agree with the answers. I can post more later on this. Some of them are just nonsense. I want to show F-i-L the thinking she has. Is it just more pressure from me? Do I need to detach more?

I also spoke with the priest who married us. Did I tell you this? He is of course willing to meet with one or the other or both of us. I want to extend an invitation to W to meet with him. The Priest and I have been speaking over the past 5 months. He said he wouldn't try convincing her of anything, but that it would be valuable to hear her side of the story, in his role as counselor to me. Really he is helping me, though of course I still harbor a strong desire to reconcile. Should I ask my W to meet with this priest? Is this just manipulative and underhanded, given my ongoing desire to reconcile?

This turned out to be pretty long, so maybe let me summarize my questions to you guys (and thank you all for being here for me, really REALLY):

• Should I extend an invitation to W to meet with our priest?
• Should I pursue my idea to meet in person with my F-i-L?
• I reserved a slot at Retrouvaille in January. I already told her about this, the morning she signed the papers, but before I knew she signed the papers. My thinking on this is to just keep the reservations and don't mention it further. She knows it's there.

I have more questions on Christmas, upcoming S10 bday, and others. I'll ask later.

All of you, thanks for the support, I Really REALLY appreciate your help. I'm going to be fine whatever happens, but I do prefer to preserve my family intact and rebuild it, and I thank you for helping me on that path.

Thank you all.
Stay well.

[SirPrizeMe]

One more thing on the FIL chat -
When I talk to him (if I talk to him), I have to assume there is a direct line from my mouth to my wife's ears.

She does not know, probably, that I have a copy of this sheet of questions about how abusive her husband has been. She is likely to view it as another invasion of her privacy. I picked it right off the desk, I swear. Plain view. (although I had previously looked at her email to boyfriend).

I am leaning toward, don't have this chat with FIL. I am looking for a way for her to save face, and enter counseling with me. I think she is sticken with unacknowledged guilt, and this is what is causing her to demonize me and push away.

At some point we have to confront the whole truth of the matter. But maybe not right now. If I have to admit to abuse to get her into the counseling room, should I do it? So far I have said, "I'm sorry it felt that way, I regret that things worked out that way, I would like to talk this over in a safe environment, with a counselor." She's decliend.

Let me re-iterate - I believe I have a responsibility in where we are. I am not saying "our situation is all her fault". It's a shared responsibility, but my goal is to get her to agree to share the load with me.

If I show this list to her father, this is not likely to get her into the counseling room with me. So that's why I think I won't do it.

So, I want to switch the question I asked. Now it is not "should I have a chat with FIL?" because I think the answer is No. (Your input on that is appreciated.) But now the more interesting question is, to what extent, beyond what I have described above ("I regret that it was that way for you, etc"), should I admit to the alleged abuse? will it help to get her to agree to counseling?

Remember papers are filed, and I do not wish to endanger my custody rights.

My posts are never as short as I think they will be. . .

bye!

[Heimlich]

Take this in the spirit of "do as i say, not as I've done," but you're better off in the long run just leaving her alone. If you want to talk to FIL because you enjoy his company, do so. If it's for the express purpose of talking about your W, really, what's the point? She's just going to feel pressured.

It makes absolutely no sense to me (or you). However, the slightest "touch" can send a WAW into a fit of "your pushing me/back off/you're controlling" or whatever. Let her alone.

And, no, now is not the time to confront the whole truth of the matter.

And really think about the abuse thing from your W's point of view. Put yourself in her shoes and see if you can get it to make sense for yourself through her eyes.

BD

[doa180]

I agree and would back off - especially of FIL and the priest. That was me a few months ago and I wished I would have stopped sooner.

None of it was perceived as trying to help -- it was all me trying to control her and to have an opportunity to let everyone tell her how wrong she is. And everytime I triwed to do anything, saying ILY -- it was all pressure to her.

[SirPrizeMe]

Hmm ok.
Maybe I am not taking the advice to "back off" seriously enough. I really appreciate the advice.

It's not true that I want to show everyone how wrong she is. I don't think. But I think this divorce is wrong. I feel strongly about that. It's happening for the wrong reasons.

BD,

...really think about the abuse thing from your W's point of view. Put yourself in her shoes and see if you can get it to make sense for yourself through her eyes.

The complaints of abuse never came out until mid-summer. After she had refused to restart counseling, while she was still talking to OM, though living in the house with me. I have a hard time thinking that I have my head in the sand on this, that I am avoiding my own responsibility on this. It seems more likely to be invented stuff. Standard demonizing; isn't that what an MLC does?

Seriously, I questioned myself about this. How did I arrive at my current position? The other things she began saying along the same timeframe are just clearly not true.

• I was never happy. She was telling me, she had an A because I (me, Sir), was never happy. I looked, and thought, Huh?!? I didn't feel unhappy. This baffled me.
• in mid-summer she screamed at me, "YOU DON'T THINK I DESERVE MY LIFE!!!" I give her everything I have. I never stopped. I washed her convertible all summer. This is not coming from me. It's coming from inside HER.
• She stated that I am trying to keep her from her family. I don't know what this means. Maybe it is that I continue to talk to her siblings.
• just recently, she changed the locks on the house. She was in process of filing for divorce and given her state of mind, but not based on any prior behavior of mine, I believe she was afraid that I would react badly when she actually filed. This is unjustified, borderline paranoia in my opinion.

None of this makes sense to me. It's not abuse on my part.

BTW, one of the questions on the sheet I mentioned was "do you FEEL that he is abusing you?" I get that her feelings are real. But just because someone FEELS abused, does not mean it is really occurring. I see there is no difference to the subject. They FEEL it, therefore it is REAL to them. But just because a person FEELs it, doesn't mean that feeling is coming from MY ACTIONS.

This is what I mean when I say the divorce is occurring for the wrong reasons. She's running from me, but the bad juju is really inside of her.

I'll tell you, though, there is something I did that I believe truly caused a great deal of pain for her: I was very distraught over the affair. While the A was active, W and OM agreed, about their spouses, "they really don't care." (This in email exchange that W showed to me.) But that was wrong. I did care. I was very upset. I contracted shingles, which in otherwise healthy adults, usually occurs due to stress. I was very stressed.

I don't mean to say I was angry for months and months. I was angry at first (first week). Then just stressed. Really stressed.

There was a time during the A that she told me she was going out with her GF's to karaoke. She got dressed and asked me how she looked. Her skirt was wrinkled, I suggested she would look better wearing something else. She changed. She looked great, and I told her that. Then she went out. I remember the night because I stayed up reading and was awake when she got home. She was very surprised I was still up. It was well after the 2pm closing time of bars. I asked why she was so late? She told me she had some coffee at GF's house before driving home. (She had had too much to drink). I accepted her explanation. I was not suspicious in the least. Not in the least! I wasn't even miffed.

Long after, the truth came out - that was a date with OM.

After D-day, the next time she went out with her GF's, I was totally fine with it, seriously, not consciously feeling suspicious, not hoping she wouldn't go. My mindset was, we both need to have more fun, so her going out is good for her (and good for our R). But after she had been gone for about 2 hrs, I starting weeping. She wasn't home. I had put the kids to bed. I don't know, it was like a flashback. I sat in a corner and wept and wept. I was paralyzed. I didn't want to feel this way, but it was really scary. I was dying to call her but I didn't. When she came home and saw me, she was very upset herself. I told her, "I trust you, I don't know what happened. It's just something I have to work through." My IC diagnosed this as a post-traumatic flashback. But the fact that I was stressed and traumatized, traumatized my W, I think.

Looking at that, I can see that it was very painful for her, to see what I was going through. I don't feel guilty about it; I was just having a tough time. I didn't yell at her. I was honestly just traumatized. and I think it compounded her guilt.

The irony of the thing is that, if I had not really cared, then there would have been less trauma for her. Of course that's a convenient excuse for me - another way to state it is, "if I had handled the situation better..." I really wish I would have handled it better. I so wish. But I just didn't. I couldn't. I tried my hardest. I was working out. (HARD. I had read that vigorous exercise helps with stress management and mood elevation. So 4 times a week I worked out HARD) Not drinking. I was going out with friends. Doing stuff I liked. I was staying cheerful. Staying close to my extended family. Spending time with the kids. I was in IC. But still, despite all this, it was still a very hard time for me. and that made it very hard for her.

At one point she was complaining to me, "why are you still so upset about this?" I said to her, "This is the worst thing that ever happened to me. It's the worst thing that ever will happen to me." I guess I was feeling punitive. and not understood. I regret having said that, now, but ...

It's so sad.

I'm not in that place now, but the damage is done.

So I can totally understand that she FEELS abused. But what could I do? I was affected strongly by the discovery of the affair. It was my BEST FRIEND. I'm human. And I'm certainly not there now. I'm not a basket case. All summer I was suggesting dates and fun activities. When she declined, I was continuing to do my own thing. But somehow while I recovered, or at least began to recover, she never could or did. She never stopped with OM. She never turned toward me.

oh!

[Heimlich]

I'm not trying to be facetious or cruel here. Everything you wrote. Yes. Absolutely true. To your W, she doesn't care.

BTW, one of the questions on the sheet I mentioned was "do you FEEL that he is abusing you?" I get that her feelings are real. But just because someone FEELS abused, does not mean it is really occurring. I see there is no difference to the subject. They FEEL it, therefore it is REAL to them. But just because a person FEELs it, doesn't mean that feeling is coming from MY ACTIONS.

Her feelings are what are important here. What I'm trying to get across is to try to understand how she got to where she is. I said a lot about taking ownership of my role in the M failure after she told me of the A, then did not a damn thing about it. An undercurrent of blame towards your W runs through your thread. That's fair to feel that way, at times I do to. Our W's decided to turn away from us to other men. Now, figure out why. How DOES SHE FEEL? This isn't about you. It's about her. The most valuable exercise I did was around an apology. I thought long and hard about how my actions made her feel. Not what my intentions were with my actions, but what MY actions caused her to feel. It took a while, but it finally clicked. I reread it last week, and it was painful to realize how much pain I had inflicted on her that got her to the point that she prefered to not be with me. I'll never understand why she pulled the trigger and didn't tell ME she felt that way, but I understand, for the most part, how she got there.

I may be overlooking something, but I don't think you have that empathy for your W. Love and a spirit ready to forgive, yes. Accepting blame for your part in this . . . maybe not totally.

BD

[Heimlich]

One other thought about backing off, your W knows you think the D is wrong. Telling her isn't doing any good.

My W once told me that any R talk was like "fingernails on a blackboard." That's generally kept me from popping off as frequently as I had been before she said that.

No R talk is that. No R talk.

BD

[SirPrizeMe]

BD, thanks for taking the time to talk this through with me.

I apologized early and often.

I told her how sorry I was to have neglected her, to have overlooked our relationship. To have taken it for granted. I was so sorry. I was sorry for my part in letting our love wither. For being oblivious. For not being who she needed me to be. I really was sorry. I still am.

It's still a mystery to me, because before the A, I thought we had it all going for us. I was happy with her, and I thought she with me.

I hear what you are saying, but I still don't see it.