formless utterings...

[Dom R]

ugh...

I really want to say... something... yet at the same time, dont even know what to say.

coming up to a year and a half of separation. I've weathred uncountable lies from my wife, large and small.... 4 or 5 online boyfriends of hers... the usual double-standards of treating me in ways that she would never ever find acceptible if I did it to her...

yet... inexplicably... i still love her.
really not even sure why my feelings are this strong, at this point. quite perplexing.
( she still treats me nicely, some times. Most of the time, its fairly "at arms length", though)

Maybe because, even though she's seemingly moving on to Yet Another Online Boyfriend...(#7?) I doubt that anything long-term will come of it? (although i still have worries every time that "this time, she'll do something crazy" )

I dunno... from a rational standpoint.. it seems stupid. It seems even less likely, that she will give ME a chance...since she manages to line them up back to back. There's barely been a single week in the last 3 years, that she hasnt had "someone" waiting inline in the wings for her. Sometimes, she even overlaps them. It's kinda sick.

Maybe I'm hoping that the more she "cycles" like this, the more likely that, maybe THIS time, she'll wake up to her MLC, wonder "what the @@@@@@ am I doing ???", and look for something better with the 5 of us for the long term, than just cycles of short term gratification for the 1 of her.



In the dec winter vacation... we're supposed to go on another "family vacation". She seems to be willing to to go on it, yet she's still seemingly keeping me at a distance; stopping us from getting "too close". She's trying to keep it cut down to the same "only 2 nights" limit that we have done with previous times.
I was worried for a while, that she was going to cancel it altogether.
Heck, I still am to some degree. She hasnt agreed on specific dates yet. She COULD still pull her usual "say no indirectly, by stalling until it is too late" tactic. Pretty tiresome.

Would be nice, at the very least for our children, if she decided to ease up,and go for 3 nights this time. they deserve two full days of playing somewhere, at least.

[ms ladybug]

Dom, you've helped me so much in this past month, I don't know if i could help the "pro" with this.
Could you just tell her, "the kids and I are going to xxx for vacation. We will go 12/15/-12/18. Do you want me to get your ticket as well?" Or, have the trip all planned and make sure there is a plan for day 4 as well. If she wants to skip it, she could go home a day early. I bet she wouldn't.

And, going on a vacation with you isn't "arms length" at all.

[Dom R]

heh. kinda a fun idea.
but, we take driving vacations. We share a car ride to get there. So its rather difficult to "leave early if she wants".

Plus, we just had a.. what you might call, an "un-fight". Where she "wasnt mad" over the fact that I planned some events recently with our children, and "invited her"... but didnt _plan_with_her_.
[she systematically has not been coming, even on the times i manage to invite her well in advance. and has been making snarky comments about how I "seem to be taking care of the children's social life just fine by myself". sigh...]
So I think that not including her in the planning, would be seen as an insult by her.

Thanks for the thought, though

[Dom R]

UUrrrrrr.... got a text message... thought it was from my wife, and i was looking forward to it... instead, it was from a woman that I havent heard from in a while. A rather... "forward" woman, who has kinda made it clear that she would welcome me getting myself into trouble with her.

gonna be.. hard... staying good with the amount of hormones I have rushing around right now

[Trixi]

gonna be.. hard... staying good with the amount of hormones I have rushing around right now

Did you mean for that to be a pun? You naughty guy!

[Dom R]

yet... inexplicably... i still love her.
really not even sure why my feelings are this strong, at this point. quite perplexing.
( she still treats me nicely, some times. Most of the time, its fairly "at arms length", though)

well.. it's not completely inexplicable.. I do know the reasons that I would be drawn to her.
[she's cute, she has a gorgeous voice, i like talking to her.. lots of other reasons...]
What is inexplicable, is that one would think that all the negative things she has done, would outweigh the positive factors.

Apparently not at the moment

from a strictly logical standpoint.. they should.
but from an emotional standpoint... apparently not.

[azhira]

So, Dom, you have the same hormone problem I have now? Gah!! Did I mention xh is a personal trainer? Talk about haaawt. Urgh.

What is inexplicable, is that one would think that all the negative things she has done, would outweigh the positive factors.

I wonder this about myself, as well... I...I just do. lol

So, what do you usually do when she makes these remarks? Do you listen? Do you ask her to explain? Did you validate her perception? How does she respond if you do and of these things?

I know it's all basic questions, but sometimes we miss the obvious in our own situations.

[Dom R]

Between her and I, it's not usually a matter of remarks (any more).
When it comes to disagreements, she doesnt "fight fair". If you were to go look at any guide on how to have positive, mutually beneficial negotiations... she does the opposite of most of them.
Doesnt look for the best "win-win" situation; only "who wins and who loses". Doesnt 'listen to understand, then communicate'; rather, she often looks for the worst possible interpretation of what I'm saying, then nurses her anger about it and blocks me out.



The bulk of "negative things" that I have to deal with about her, though, are more a matter of her choices, rather than comments to me.
The biggest one, obviously, is about her choosing to basically "date" other people online, and refuse to even look at how well we can get along.

If I treated her horribly, yelled at her, etc... I could understand her looking elsewhere. In contrast, other than unavoidable arguments about kids... I think i've treated her fairly well over the last year, both in words, and actions.
Sure, I didnt GIVE her everything that she DEMANDED of me... but that's not the same thing.

We clearly CAN get along... claims of "we cant get along" to her family clearly isnt true. . However, for the longer term... seems like she would rather "hold onto her anger", than have a positive talk with me about what a positive life together might look like. Instead of even discussing a possibility... She apparently choses to look to a new, "fresh" relationship to solve her happiness issues.

Or perhaps, she'd just rather have an online relationship, than a real-life, "get your hands dirty and work together" one.


Seems like the same thing she does with arguments. She's putting her fingers in her ears, and saying "I've made up my mind, I dont want to recognize your point of view, because I want to stay angry with you and do what I want to do"




I wrote more ranty stuff.. but decided to let it go. done enough ranting.


what can I do about it?

Nothing. It's her choice to value those people above me.
I cant "make her see" something, that she has decided that she doesnt want to even look at.

Some people might say "plan B" (in fact, many have ).
Cant bring myself to do that, though. Both for myself, and my 6-year-old children. I dont see how I could possibly explain to them, how I could simultanously want to be with "mama", yet at the same time, turn her away.

I still love her. i still want to be with her.
sucks to be me, i guess.

[azhira]

I still love her. i still want to be with her.
sucks to be me, i guess.

You're still allowing her to have all the power here.

What's worked in the past? Anything gotten her interest at all? Even something small? Is there anything you say or do where she's less cold towards you?

I'd say if she really wanted to be gone...she would be.

[Dom R]

I'd say if she really wanted to be gone...she would be.

oh... she's practically there. I think she may be biding her time, until she finds the "perfect man" to replace me with, and then it would happen.
She may even have convinced herself that her "new guy" is that perfect man.


It would be interesting to see an objective comparison of him vs me and see how we stack up. Heck, me, vs just about ANY of her past online boyfriends.

They pretty much add up the same, I think. Something like this:

 "HIM"                             ME
Plays FFXI all day         Cares about other things, like our kids

college student/           Has a stable, well paying job
bartender/fry cook

Has no respect for
 marriage                  Committed to marriage for life
                              (and always improving M.)

Outsider                   Has a close, loving relationship
                           with our children

Romantically high on       Loves the real-world her
pixels and phone calls

Relationship based on      knows more about /real/ her than anyone
facade                     else ever will, and loves her.


no long-term history       15 years of "together". some good,
                           some bad. but still together.


                           Proven loyal, through stuff that
                           would make just about anyone else
                           cut and run away from her.

Step"father" leading to    Would be with our children 
reinforced part time       every day
 custody.


Inexperienced in what makes Has "learned the hard way", 
a long-term relationship    already shown willing to 
work                        change based on spouse's 
                            needs, and willing to go 
                            further.


"second marriage" has even     1st husband.
higher fail rate than first

She always complains that I "dont respect her, as an intelligent, rational person".
Unfortunately, she usually metaphorically sticks her fingers in her ears, to my reply of, "you have a great mind; you just choose to deliberately not apply it sometimes".

This seems like one of those times.
"logically speaking", seems like it makes the most sense to try to work things out with me, if I am willing to listen to her needs.

buut... she's not willing to have a rational, "fair fight" negotiations type talk with me about it.