FWIW, I think you've had enough R talk. Right now, you are telling H through your actions that his scraps are good enough. So, be ready not to get anything else.
If you want more, then if I were you I'd remove myself from a situation that I didn't find acceptable. If he asks why, simply tell him the truth.
I like your thinking oldtimer. Nikki, I don't think it would be a mistake at all to take the approach oldtimer would. You are in my thoughts. Hope you're having a better day than I am.
Me: 37 M: 14 yrs Separated 10/06; Filed for D 12/07 Life is good.
Well, whatever you decide, I think either staying in the room or not can still work to your favor. I don't necessarily think that what he's giving you is going to be all that you'll get. I mean, you have a whole separate life apart from him right now, and you haven't really given that up. Last time, you gave it up too soon, and you really weren't at this confident level.
I understand though about what your getting. really it's fear that it will go away if you move out of the bedroom. But you can just act like you wanted to make it perfect before moving into it if he asks why you took so long to move in there.
Plus, I think it would be a great idea to say you'd like to start dating again. you can pretend your roomates that have a little crush on each other. Just because you move into that room, doesn't mean you can't snuggle with him.. or that he won't JOIN you in your new comfy futon. especially when you walk past him with some great perfume and sexy lingerie and let him catch a glimpse underneath as you say naughty night! haha, I wrote nighty first, but immediate saw it and thought of the word naughty!
I think he'll be beggin for more if you do that, and I think it will help with your R in the long run too. if you had kids, I would probably be against it, but w/o, it's a little easier to "play the game".
glad you had a good time with your mom! have fun dancing! I wish I could do that too!
Me 33 H 34 S9 S3 M 6 yrs (2gether 11 yrs) EA/PA 1/2006 DB 5/2006 H wants D 6/2006 H wants ME 8/2006 H "said" PA/EA over 8/2006 H erased OW off phone! 2/2007
"It is far better 2 choose humility & change oneself, than 2 wait in vain trying 2 chang someone else."
Hi all - thanks so much for the comments and feedback! I appreciate it.
ediemarie Ah sounds like you know exactly where I am at. It's like.. well yeah, it's MORE of an effort, but it falls FAR short of a commitment or enough effort.
I was looking through some old photos the other night - no not to torture myself, was looking for stuff to print and share with my grandma. I ran across one from Valentine's day 2 years ago - wow, what a difference. H had strung the yard with lights (reminiscent of our wedding), candles everywhere, a fire on the back patio, soooo romantic!! He even made the dog a little bed outside so she could join us and not be cold. Awww. And he cooked us a BBQ dinner. It wow'ed me at the time and it still does today, just remembering it. No way do I expect stuff like that all the time - but that reminded me SO much of what I want. That night I felt SO special, understood, loved, appreciated. Makes me sad a bit to think that he DIDN'T feel this in return (or now says he didn't, anyway). But trying to keep looking forward... THAT is what I want to feel in an R, and THAT what I want to give in return, too.
Ok that was a really long ramble that had not much to do with what you said.. sorry! Just triggered a memory.
As to busy and being out - definitely!! And loving every minute of it. It feels "real" now rather than the old "fake it til you make it" feeling I had for so many months. I enjoy seeing my friends rather than thinking "oh thank goodness someone else is trying to be out of the house tonight too" (if that makes sense). I've been staying out a LOT more in the evenings - often til bedtime or near bedtime. As for overnights I will be gone out of town for work next week and then in Sonoma the following weekend, so that's some built in nights away. Seems like the more I stay away the more he wants me home, just like you mentioned.
f21 Aw so sorry to hear you are having a rough day!! I will check in on you shortly. I have been GALing so much I've lost touch with everyone here a bit.
Thanks for the reminder - strength is important!! I talked to a girl tonight who was the WAW - she planned her "getaway" for two YEARS before she officially walked. She told her H that evening and moved out that night. Wow. We (friend and I) talked a bit about that. In the course of the convo I mentioned one thing I was grateful for is that no matter what happens with me/us I've had this time to gain strength and prepare. It wasn't my intent but she seemed to feel a bit guilty that her XH didn't have that time. It was interesting to see the other side of it. I asked her if her H had changed at 1 year into her planning what may have happened - she said "it would have taken a lot of work and commitment on his part but I might have reconsidered - I believe in the power of people to change but it's a lot harder than most people think. I had set a deadline date and he didn't meet it though." Thought that was interesting too.
You're officially the third person to tell me "don't wait til after the holidays." Maybe I need to listen eh? I remember the whole "wait til after the holidays" and what a fiasco it was last year so you may well be right. I need to pretend it's March or something.. hehe.
On asking for what I want - what's weird is can I really ask for what I want when I have no commitment from H? Sure I have some really positive signs... but nothing at all definitive that he wants this R/M. If I ask for what I want (commitment to try) right now I think he'll become resolved in his commitment to walk. Hmmm. Something to think on though, for sure.
OT and f21 You both make very good points about the precedent I'm setting. I'm not so sure about him being motivated to make any changes right now or me having a power position (more power in my OWN life but not so sure about my R/M).
Just wanting to explain a bit - I think I pour out so many thoughts here that it may sound like we have more R talks than we really have. The last one was about a month ago. At that time he was in "party all the time" mode, seemed to have a new EA (though seems to have lasted only a month or so?), and told me that he was acting the way he was because "MC told me I had to make a decision." He never even shared what that decision was but it was relatively clear that his idea was I'd disappear and leave him the house without any financial consequence. The closest we came to a reality talk at that point was him saying he regretted getting married and he got upset about the money for awhile - like money was the only "obstacle" to a D.
After that I created my room but haven't moved, decided that I didn't want to buy him out on the house, and basically have been acting and feeling as if I'm moving on towards the future without him (but while still living with him.. and with a thread of hope for building a new R with him although I finally feel I have let go of the old one). He's confused why I redecorated a room and wonders why I am gone a lot, but that's really all he "knows" or we've discussed. No R talks.. he didn't even ever know I planned or thought about separating, no idea about my decision on the house, etc.
So long story short.. OT, I totally see what you are saying. Maybe I just need to speak through actions. But I also see f21's point that it may be time to actually ASK for what I want. I feel somewhat like the WAW who never really made things clear.. like I'm avoiding the conflict rather than addressing the "hard stuff."
Hmm.
Donna Thanks for the hello! I will drop by soon.
ST Thanks for stopping by. Hey I forgot to tell you, I got that dark blue rug like you recommended and it looks SO good in that bathroom!! I'll have to take new pics, it made a tremendous difference. Thanks!!!
You're really right about my whole separate life. It's almost weird. I used to feel guilty having a life outside of H, now I'm kinda proud of it. Haven't given it up at all - stepped it up, if anything. Honestly if H asked to go out with me tomorrow I'd have to see if I could fit him in... and even then it might be a week out. It feels good.
And yep.. fear that I'll lose those few scraps/comforts if I move (to the bedroom or otherwise), that's right on, too. I have my whole other life going on but it's still nice to come home to someone who wants to hear about my day, would notice or care if I never came home, wants to snuggle in the morning for a few minutes. It's not enough but it sure is nice.
About the room, you're right I can definitely say I wanted to make it perfect. Or I could just have the original convo I planned since we never really did. He never even knew I was "moving" - our convo about the room consisted of him asking if "someone" was moving in there and I said "maybe."
haha I totally laughed when I saw your "start dating again" because at first I thought you meant *I* should start dating other people and I went woah!! Not ready for THAT yet! Then I caught what you meant. I think at this point that'd be pressure, but that's a good way to look at it. There IS a reason I got the queen sized futon as opposed to the twin sized daybed right . Um yeah I would NEVER do that with kids around, but that may be a good idea later on.. we'll see how things go, but I like the idea.
--------------------------------- Little more journaling:
Tonight I went out to dinner w/friends and had a good time. One of the girls likes to talk R and nothing but R (her former M, her current R, my M, anyone else's... it's OK for awhile but gets old!). Lots of good insights though.
Funny enough H called (twice) to tell me to have fun and ask me some questions that really had no urgency. I answered one call, let the other go to VM. He was still up when I got home (surprising as it was well past his usual bedtime, but I'm off tomorrow so I have no bedtime ). Weirdest of all he left his cell phone sitting here on the table almost directly in front of me. It was obvious enough that I asked him "Hey did you mean to put your phone on the charger?" - H replied "No it should be fine, but you can plug it in if you want." Geez. Invitation to snoop anyone? Funny enough... I don't want to. Dunno if that's detachment or indifference, but I honestly just don't care.
Tonight (late) just FINALLY catching up on the boards so hope to visit everyone shortly!!
Thanks again. Lots to think about as always.
Oh and before I forget - I already have my days planned from now through Sunday, so one more "no anxiety" weekend down. HOORAY!!!
Me 35, H 38; Together 13.5 yrs, M 7 Bomb 1 10/07/06 Sep'd 1/14/07 - 4/15 Piecing: 4/07 - 9/07 Bomb 3 10/11/07: Never loved you, let's separate 2/08 slowly improving 7/08 Piecing (7/25/08 rings back on!!) Current thread
The whole "ask for what you want" thing is for couples who are still in an M R together and want it to work. I don't see that your H is there. When he comes back to the M and you are both trying to make a great R, then it is time to ask for what you want.
Think about the water cooler example. The annoying office person is finally giving you some space, leaving you alone, has quit sulking that you won't do lunch with her, etc... You become more pleasant to the annoying office person. You talk about the weather. Occassionally you say "hi" in the hallway. You stop walking the other direction when she walks in the door. Then, she confronts you in your office. Comes in and shuts the door, and starts to lay out exactly what she wants if you two are going to continue to be best friends -- regular nights out, coffee breaks together, share secrets, plan a vacation together, sharing funny emails, etc... OMG!!!! I'd say your next step would be to get a deadbolt for your office and bring your own water.
Give H a chance to work on the R, initiate improvements, say what HE wants. Leave it alone. Let him do it all for awhile so he can figure out what he wants. If he wants R talk, he can start it. If he wants to show you his cell phone history, he can print it out and hand it to you.
Don't try to make moving into the other room a huge TEST MOMENT. Don't try to use it to shock him into coming around. Don't make it a big drama. Just start sleeping in there. If he wants to know why, he can ask.
Do take plenty of pics with your new friends and leave your camera laying around. Make lots of calls to numbers he doesn't know and leave your phone around. Let him snoop if he wants.
If he wants details of your comings and goings, he can ask. If he wants time with you, he can ask for that to.
But if he asks for it, try to make him feel special in the way that he tried to make you feel special, but in a non-needy, non-let's-call-in-the-drama way. If you go out to a bar, do something silly like sneak to the bar and get a bunch of fruit and an umbrella for his drink. Don't order him the drink from your honeymoon. If you go shopping, point out the race car cuff links. Don't point out the thing that reminds you of your honeymoon. etc...
Have a fabulous weekend. Stay out late and just sneak into your room, lol.
OT - thanks for the perspective, I appreciate it. That's kind of where my mind was at too after processing and thinking about what everyone's posted. H just isn't there right now... may or may not be later, but he isn't right now.
I'm definitely not wanting anything to be drama right now - the room, the holidays, any of it. I think I have FINALLY stopped looking for the magic "thing" that will change his mind.
Thanks again. And yep, planning for a fantastic weekend!!
Me 35, H 38; Together 13.5 yrs, M 7 Bomb 1 10/07/06 Sep'd 1/14/07 - 4/15 Piecing: 4/07 - 9/07 Bomb 3 10/11/07: Never loved you, let's separate 2/08 slowly improving 7/08 Piecing (7/25/08 rings back on!!) Current thread
You sound good. Sounds like you are really enjoying your GALing too. Good work on that!
Thanks for your thoughts for me yesterday. It was a little rough there for a bit but I turned it around. It's to be expected that this not be an easy time, but I'm very happy with how my day ended. It all works out.
I absolutely think you deserve to have what you want. Do you?
How we "ask" for that depends. DBing is doing what works. As Michele points out, it's important to choose the medium for your message. Look at what has worked for you with your H up to this point.
OT's annoying coworker at the water cooler is a great reminder of how your H might view any R talk that you initiate verbally. The suggestions OT gives you of what to do are super good, as usual. I see them as asking for (communicating) what you want through action. It will likely give you the opportunity to verbalize to H some of what you want if/when he asks you what's going on. I sure seems like actions have been working for you... I think you just need to continue taking more of them.
Quote:
You both make very good points about the precedent I'm setting. I'm not so sure about him being motivated to make any changes right now or me having a power position (more power in my OWN life but not so sure about my R/M).
I'm really glad you see you're setting a precedent for what is good enough for you. I'm getting the impression that it is you, not your H, that isn't motivated to make more changes right now. I know it's so easy to get complacent when the WAS isn't currently providing that motivation. You're likely in a comfort zone now. That can be very dangerous when that comfort zone is not what you truly want. What has that given you in the past?
Provide your own motivation, Nik. Know what you want, and believe that you deserve it. If you want to create some leverage for yourself you might list for yourself your answers to each of these questions... What will happen if you don't change what you're doing right now? What could happen if you do?
I think your R/M is part of your "OWN" life. You don't have to make an exception for that area. You deserve to feel empowered all the way around.
Celebrate your strength. You have clearly become stronger through your own hard work. I know you can continue with your growth here. Don't settle!
Love, f21
Me: 37 M: 14 yrs Separated 10/06; Filed for D 12/07 Life is good.
f21 - thank you!! Lots to think about, and I will reply more once I've processed it a bit. Thank you so much for sharing your perspective, I really appreciate it. I think you are absolutely right on with a lot of your points, including some I hadn't even seen myself. Will respond more tomorrow once I've given it all some thought.
------------- Some very quick journaling because I had a good day and I decided I should always make sure to share those! Keeps me focused on the good.
This AM I finally tried out that paint color my friend loaned me in my room - it's PERFECT! So I went and got a gallon of that, and plan to paint tomorrow. It's such a pretty color, exactly what I wanted.
Then I went and got my hair cut, and indulged a bit in this "rescue remedy" treatment for dry hair. OMG... love it!!! I have super fine hair, which can be nice but it also damages WAY too easy. With this treatment my hair went from decent but fragile "might break any minute" looking to soft, silky, shiny - wow!!! I'm sure I looked like I was flirting with everyone I ran across this afternoon because I can't stop touching my hair! I didn't even realize I was doing it til this guy next to me at an intersection raised his eyebrow and winked at me and I was thinking "Um where did THAT come from?" then realized I was running my hands through my hair - haha. Cracked me up.
After that went to this "appreciation party" that my local Pampered Chef person throws for past hostesses. I've always been invited (since I had a PC party maybe 9 years ago?) but I've never gone. I finally made it this year and WOW it was so nice!! I was planning to make a token appearance for an hour but ended up staying for .. oh geez, like 6 hours I think?? I forgot that I know her because of a bunch of H's and my mutual friends - they were all "his" friends first so I've felt awkward calling any of them and have kinda missed them. Much to my surprise they ALL came to the party! It's sort of an open house format so it was perfect - 1-2 old friends would come in, I'd chat w/them, they'd leave just as another old friend came in... so I ended up staying the whole time just to see them all. So great to catch up w/everyone. They don't know about our sitch so the talk about "So how was your Thanksgiving?" was a bit awkward, but all in all it was just great.
Got home way after H's bed time again but he was still up, waiting for me to get home. He's been doing that lately. I told him who I'd seen and that they all said hi - as they'd all asked me to do. He seemed entirely confused as to how/why I was at a party with all "his" friends and he didn't know about it. He asked about it and I did tell him that it was a Pampered Chef thing and that I was pleasantly surprised to see them all too. After that we were just watching a bit of TV on the couch. He got up to go to the bathroom or something and I shifted a bit on the couch and he said "No, don't move! I'll be right back." When he got back, put his arm around me and then kinda pulled me over to snuggle with him. It was really nice - and while I enjoyed it very much I'm not torn up about it now (i.e. the ol' "what does it mean? does he love me again? is he coming around?"), which is even better.
Got lots of plans for the weekend and looking forward to them all.
Thanks again f21! I will definitely reply more soon.
Me 35, H 38; Together 13.5 yrs, M 7 Bomb 1 10/07/06 Sep'd 1/14/07 - 4/15 Piecing: 4/07 - 9/07 Bomb 3 10/11/07: Never loved you, let's separate 2/08 slowly improving 7/08 Piecing (7/25/08 rings back on!!) Current thread
It sounds like you are proccessing your sitch very well.
I do agree with OT you need to just let H know By action. Just move into your room if he askes tell him. But don't offer to much info( ie: getting into r talk). Let him do any of the R talk that way you know where he stands and know that he is working on himself.
On my end im'e just so frustated by H's Mom but, i think it is because i worry about her she is getting almost as bad as h's dad, just in different ways. Im w worried that it will take it's toll on us.
JAK
You don't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when, you can only decide how you're going to live now. ~Joan Baez
Nikki. what you said about H doing all those things on Valentines... He DID mean that. What he's said during your sitch about not ever being in love or whatever crazy thing he's said is all B.S. So don't believe that all those things were just him pretending... that's just silly... unless he's some psycho guy.
OT gave you some great pointers. I especially like how she said
"But if he asks for it, try to make him feel special in the way that he tried to make you feel special, but in a non-needy, non-let's-call-in-the-drama way. If you go out to a bar, do something silly like sneak to the bar and get a bunch of fruit and an umbrella for his drink. Don't order him the drink from your honeymoon. If you go shopping, point out the race car cuff links. Don't point out the thing that reminds you of your honeymoon. etc..."
Me 33 H 34 S9 S3 M 6 yrs (2gether 11 yrs) EA/PA 1/2006 DB 5/2006 H wants D 6/2006 H wants ME 8/2006 H "said" PA/EA over 8/2006 H erased OW off phone! 2/2007
"It is far better 2 choose humility & change oneself, than 2 wait in vain trying 2 chang someone else."
especially when you walk past him with some great perfume and sexy lingerie and let him catch a glimpse underneath as you say naughty night! haha, I wrote nighty first, but immediate saw it and thought of the word naughty! 
Awww. And he cooked us a BBQ dinner. It wow'ed me at the time and it still does today, just remembering it. No way do I expect stuff like that all the time - but that reminded me SO much of what I want. That night I felt SO special, understood, loved, appreciated. Makes me sad a bit to think that he DIDN'T feel this in return (or now says he didn't, anyway). But trying to keep looking forward... THAT is what I want to feel in an R, and THAT what I want to give in return, too. 
Don't settle!