WAW hasn't walked yet, but emotionally dead

[mako]

Thanks for the comments. It's really hard to know these things, such as what to show her (e.g. with my new attempts at openness), how much to talk to her, how much emotion to show, since these were problems that she had and would have to see changed, but at the same time they might push her away. I guess I just have to play it by ear and do what seems to work, avoid what doesn't.

Anyway, I did ask her to go. I e-mailed her because I felt that would be lower pressure. She wrote back saying thanks for the invite but she is going to an annual potluck party with a class that she's been taking (she's often done this class on saturday mornings, so I believe it's real and not just an excuse). Obviously if I was a high priority she could ditch that, but whatever, I know I'm not high on her list right now.

She also told me about her most recent job interview in New York, how she thought it went well but if she doesn't get it she'll stay in this area for a while. I have mixed feelings about that, I wish her the best but also it will be very hard to have any type of contact or effect on her from 200 miles away, although I'm still considering going there too. I still find it odd that we may move to the same place separately, and that she even encouraged that.

Anyway, the positives I take from this: she could have not responded at all, but she did. She didn't actually say "I don't want to go with you," though she may have meant that, she could easily have said it. She didn't just give her excuse, she went on to talk about what's happening with her life. She even told me to have a good day, an unnecessary pleasantry.

So, I think this wasn't so bad, it didn't hurt. My first main goal here is to get her to do something with me, we haven't hung out since she left. I'm not sure how that will happen, but I'll work on that. This has kind of showed me that contacting her and inviting her to something, while it didn't achieve the optimum result, is not terrible for our sitch, so I can try it again sometime.

And, I've come to the conclusion that I shouldn't go dark. Not now, not while we have at least pleasant interaction. Being dark would I think emphasize to her that I am the same old me. I'm not going to call her all the time, but sometimes, maybe once or twice a week; preferably she'll call me sometimes so it won't be all me. But it's a fine line between pressure and more of the same.

My ability to plan things was also a big problem for her. So, going and doing things, and telling her about it, would allow me to show her these steps I am taking. I can kill two birds with one stone, plan fun things for myself, and tell her what I good time I had, being open with her. And I will invite her from time to time, not every time. Perhaps she'll accept once.

[ca rollercoaster]

Thought I would offer a perspective on how much to go dark. As I said, I am in a similar situation. I think we are constantly trying to convince ourselves of reasons to not go dark. Reality is, the way she is thinking right now showing effort may not be appropriate yet (too little too late). I would would try to 'delay mirror' her. If she comes forward, reciprocate a little later with something. Let her initiate a call and if it goes well, call her in a couple days and invite her to something. My gut would never tell myself to do that but I think that is the value of this board. Alot easier to give advice when you see from the outside.

[Dom R]

i think that you have to carefully gauge how often to invite. If she's only talking once a week... then invite no more than that.

One day, you may be surprised by an accept of your invite, mako.

just dont base your motivations on whether she takes you up on an invite these days, and you'll probably be a happier person

She also told me about her most recent job interview in New York, how she thought it went well but if she doesn't get it she'll stay in this area for a while. I have mixed feelings about that, I wish her the best but also it will be very hard to have any type of contact or effect on her from 200 miles away, although I'm still considering going there too. I still find it odd that we may move to the same place separately, and that she even encouraged that.

I got something similar from my W a week or two ago - She was complaining that I lived so far away and that I needed to move closer. This was about three weeks after she moved out of our house. She's certainly not 200 mile away, but I guess the principle is the same.

I'm not sure if it is a fence sitting exercise or something else. Maybe someone else further through the process can enlighten us

[wawpioneer]

My WAW has mentioned that she wants to move out of this area and into a larger city where there is more "to do". She said she is bored. I am also concerned about the distance thing. However, the OM was able to gain her trust over the internet and telephone. So, it is not impossible I guess. I am amazed at how similar these stories are to mine. Most females that I have received advice from say to give her plenty of space to miss you. They say that contact may not be the best thing. It may be best to let her initiate as much contact as you can stand. I want to call my WAW every day but I know that she does not want that. I like the "delayed mirror" effect in the earlier post from carollercoaster. Might be worth a try.

[Heimlich]

Maybe someone else further through the process can enlighten us

Folks, if you're new to the board, you are every bit as likely to have the same type of insight and knowledge as many who've been around for a while. The thing you gain the more you read/post is perspective and you start seeing trends of what works/what doesn't. For the most part, you begin to realize that the principles of DB lead to success. Most of the handholding that occurs is telling each other stuff that we kindof already know, but are too stupid/stubborn/'smart' to do.

As the Buddha (or some Eastern philosophy) says (whatever, I'm tired), enlightenment comes from within. Listen to folks. Read others. Post away. It's easier to see what others are doing.

Lord knows if I read my own posts and then tried to give myself advice, I'd tear out my hair in frustration.

Hang in there,

BD

[mako]

Thanks for the input all, you're probably right. She does probably still need space at this point, I don't want to overdo things when she's not super responsive. Even if I wasn't a great pursuer during the M, it's not what she wants right now even if she would like that if we ever reconciled.

I saw this Going dark 101 page today and found it interesting. It mentions my big fear: that going dark when you were often withdrawn during the M might be more harmful than good, just seen as more of the same behavior, just like the mako she wants to leave. So it does seem like a fine line to walk.

So, I still don't think total darkness is for me, though right now W probably wants more space so I'll stay back. I think I'll take a dim approach...let her initiate most of the time, I can once in a while, but mostly just respond to her. And invitations can be made, but again not often and only if the last interaction seemed pretty positive. As long as our interaction remains cordial I may switch it up here and there, just experiment to see if certain things work or not.

just dont base your motivations on whether she takes you up on an invite these days, and you'll probably be a happier person

That's the truth. Have to do my best not to dwell on her acts or let them control my happiness. As they say, I'll just have my picnic and I'll enjoy it, but if she wants to drop in for a bite that's fine too.

[mako]

I got something similar from my W a week or two ago - She was complaining that I lived so far away and that I needed to move closer. This was about three weeks after she moved out of our house. She's certainly not 200 mile away, but I guess the principle is the same.

I'm not sure if it is a fence sitting exercise or something else. Maybe someone else further through the process can enlighten us

Yeah, I don't get this either. You're the one leaving, you could live in the same house if you wanted

But I think in my case it's a guilt thing. She thinks I'll be happier there...the happier I am the less guilt she has to feel for leaving me.

But maybe not...maybe I'll just act as if she just wants me in the same city cause she has some doubts and thinks she might change her mind. Not too likely at this point, but I'm not a mind reader, who knows what she's thinking?

[mako]

Interesting interaction today. As noted above, I decided not to contact W, let her initiate. But something came up...

I think I mentioned above somewhere that we recently found out my uncle, who was always great to me and W, is addicted to crack...well today I found out from my mom that he has really spiraled downhill in a bad way, nearing rock bottom. This really affected me, I love him and felt really sad about it.

I needed to get some of this stuff off my chest, but...I haven't told any of my friends about my uncle, didn't really want to open that can of worms, so I wrote W an e-mail...explaining what's been going on with uncle and my feelings about things with him. I said at the end "You don't need to respond, I just needed an outlet and didn't know who else I could tell."

She called about 2 minutes after I sent it. We had about a 20 minute conversation about him and how we feel about it. No R talk. It was nice, I hadn't shared something personal like this with her besides R talk in a long time. I don't know if she felt anything, but I felt a nice connection with her because of it.

So, it may have been backsliding to contact her, I'm going to go to dim mode now, but it turned out alright I think. I was glad she called me right away, she didn't have to, and it felt nice to just talk to her about something meaningful in my life besides R talk. If nothing else it shows she's still willing to be a friend for me, something I wasn't entirely sure about.

[wawpioneer]

I am really sorry to hear about your uncle. I can only imagine what you are going through with that. People sometimes appear fine on the outside but on the inside their life may be in turmoil. I have been able to notice this more in people lately. For example, my niece looked really distant at dinner tonight and looked like something was bothering her. Come to find out my nephew and her have been trying to have kids for nearly 4 years and she is worried that she will never be able to conceive. I had another niece across the table that is due in 6 weeks or so and was talking quite a bit about it.

I hope that the conversation that you had with waw was productive. Hard to tell sometimes. I am glad though that she was there for you to talk to. Let me know how the dim mode works for you. I think that I may be getting close to the dim mode myself. I have not heard from her now for 4 days. It is our longest stretch