an xh, his FF, Thanksgiving, MIL, and one psuedo-R

[azhira]

I was actually trying to say that he'll chase more if you have some boundaries and if you show that he needs to respect you by not trying to be with two women at the same time.

Yeah, that's been the theme here lately...

I have a hard time just going cold turkey. It tends to make me bounce back and forth. I seem to have better luck if I pull back a little more, and a little more. I've spent, oh, maybe 1/3 of the time with him the last few days in comparison to what I would normally.

I'm reticent to cut down on our phone conversations at the moment. Mostly because, it seems to be sinking in with him. The conversations have gone up in frequency since the blow up over the weekend, and most importantly, are giving me insight into myself.

[azhira]

I am having trouble eating. I am now too skinny. Great. The only other time I have ever been this tiny...was separation number two. I need to gain some weight, the healthy way, but I'm having so much anxiety I can't eat. Forcing myself to work out seems to help equal out the crazy emotions. But, I still need to eat more.

xh and I had another long, extended, lousy R talk earlier. The talks make us both feel like crap, but we agree that they are productive. I'm too emotionally tired to recall what all was said.

So. This evening, when he stopped by to see the kid, I have not initiated any physical contact, per his request. xh, however, has given me at least a dozen hugs. He also gave me a bit of a back rub, realigned my back, and included some sexual innuendo in the conversation. (After asking me not to try anything.) He then proceeded to invite me to his company Christmas party, and also to hiking on Saturday. (Doubt I'll go hiking. Not sure about the party.)

He seemed surprised that I'm "still" upset over JD. Duh. I just told him, again, that that is simply how I feel.

Oh, he just called me again, after he left. Wanted to know if he could pick me up something to eat. Sheesh.

He came back later to see the baby before bedtime. More hugs, and even a couple of kisses. None initiated by me.

He told me last night, that sometimes DS looks for me at his apartment, and that breaks his heart.

We talked even more this morning.

I feel like complete and utter crap. My self-esteem is trashed, and I really, really need to stop asking him questions about JD, because I'm just making myself miserable. I miss being detached.

But mostly, I need to eat.

He did ask me to quit yelling at him. xh said he wants to talk to me about a lot of stuff now, but not while I'm interjecting snippy insults.

[Dom R]

He did ask me to quit yelling at him. xh said he wants to talk to me about a lot of stuff now, but not while I'm interjecting snippy insults.

Oooo.. that's a biggie.

There's a big difference between "making it clear that you are unhappy/dissatisfied, and why", vs "interrupting him with snippy insults".

The first, is communication about your feelings and thoughts.
The second, is disrespectful to HIS feelings and thoughts.

Sorry about the eating thing. If you want to stay healthy and not lose too much weight, try the protein shake things. (the ones to help BUILD, not the "diet" ones. there are two different types).

Or, heck... just go with straight-up milkshakes (the ones with real milk/cream, not the fake junk)



PS: if he acts "surprised" about you "still" being upset about JD... you might explicitly mention, that you cant imagine you feeling any other way, while he continues to see her.

[azhira]

Yeah, I know. My communication has been flip-floppy. I recognize that him saying that means that I am getting out of control with my anger. Been doing DB long enough to understand what he's meaning. I just released a dam of detached/buried feelings over the weekend, and am still waiting on the floodwaters to go down...no excuse for being rude to him, I know.

He keeps checking on me. He is as concerned about my eating as I am. I do do this when extremely stressed, and experience tells me it'll get better over the next few days. If not, I will get some medication. I do need to gain some (healthy) weight, and xh was giving me suggestions for protein shakes and that sort of thing, since drinking appears to be easier than eating. I have already lost too much weight. Ugh.

We've been talking and talking and talking about all of this. xh seems to finally understand that lying was a big problem. He also claims to have not noticed that I was clearly into him again (??), but conversely says he didn't want to tell me because he was afraid he'd upset me. Then he says he didn't think I'd be this upset. WTF? Weird alien-babble, or what?

xh also insists he knows what he is doing. He did acknowledge that he "could" get really hurt by JD (um, hello?). He made some weird statements about letting him make his mistakes, that maybe it won't blow up (okay, maybe not, but the chances are not good), and then maybe it would but he "needed" to experience that kind of pain.

I told him part of my frustration with his denial about the whole thing, is that I am worried he's going to get badly hurt. And, even after everything, I don't want him to hurt like that. (Yes. Being honest. Although I would like for him to have the perspective, I genuinely don't wish this kind of pain on anyone.)

He still doesn't seem to understand why I thought we were playing married. I told that I hadn't wanted to push him for something he wasn't ready for, but that I had wanted to take a step in the direction of exploring the possibility of reconciliation. Just a step, no rush, no push. (And, yes, really, I wanted to take it slowly.) He seems to think it was more along the lines of friends with benefits.

Oh. So, no more denial that he's in an R with JD. I wonder if that realization will take some of the fun fantasy out of it. He admits he was in denial, because of her "situation". I just said, again, that she's married. He seems to get uncomfortable when I remind him that she's living with her husband, sharing a bed with her husband, and still intimate with her husband. Just get this "I don't worry about things I can't control" answer.

xh did sort of thank me for pushing all this over the past few days. Said he was feeling less like his head was in the sand. Weird, huh? He also said that he was sort of relieved that he didn't have to lie anymore. And that there was a lot of other things he wanted to talk to me about.

At least work has really ramped up...probably will help distract me, and bring my appetite back.

[Dom R]

xh also insists he knows what he is doing. He did acknowledge that he "could" get really hurt by JD (um, hello?). He made some weird statements about letting him make his mistakes, that maybe it won't blow up (okay, maybe not, but the chances are not good), and then maybe it would but he "needed" to experience that kind of pain.

Sounds like he's saying, that he's a big boy, and needs to 'face the pain'of his choices.

A corollory of that, is that if he chooses to be with her, then he doesnt get to be with you.


"help him" with that. just like he asked.


It sounds like, just like you assumed that you would "never really lose him", that he assumed that he would "never really lose YOU".

I'd say, show him that he is wrong.
Show him that this is unacceptible treatment of you, to be involved with both you, and someone else.


I think that you're being WAAY too supportive of him. you being supportive of him, sounds like that is giving him the feeling that "it's ok", and that somehow, you are a relationship coach, for HIM AND JD!

[azhira]

Ew.

So.

Quick question. xh keeps asking me why I am upset. Setting aside the duu-uh aspect of that question, the conversation usually goes like this...

xh: I don't understand why you're upset.
me: Because you were involved with both of us at the same time.
xh: Ok. Maybe I was in denial about JD because of her situation.
me: She's married.
xh: I know. I was scared of what it meant.
me: You were in as much of an R with me, as with her.
xh: No I wasn't. We're divorced. Is this about JD? Would you be upset if it had been anyone else?

How in the world do I respond to that? He seems to think it's just because it's JD, or just because he lied. No acknowledgment whatsoever that we were playing married.

He also keeps calling me to cheer me up. Sheesh. I'm trying to remember to thank him for caring, and I keep saying that I'm not going to feel better anytime soon.

Dropped off DS at his place for his night there. I had xh meet me downstairs--MIL and bf are back, and I am just not dealing with that right now. At least xh is no longer calling me a big meanie for not hanging out with him. He gave me a hug, and told me to eat something. When DS clung onto me, he then kept asking me if I want him to bring DS back to my place later. He said he would, if he could stay the night. I said no.

[azhira]

Last night, 'DS' wanted to call me and say hi. xh was joking around with me, saying that DS was looking for me. He asked: "Aren't you tempted?" Me: "Tempted...what?" (My mind hit the gutter pretty quickly.) xh: "To hang out with me. You know...because you have feelings." Me: "No, not really." xh: "Why not?" Me: "You're right. I do have feelings. I am choosing not to act on them."

I also told xh last night that I didn't want to go to his company party, because that's a date thing, and I won't play fallback plan to his gf. He said he hadn't asked her. I told him I wasn't going.

Apparently, I am a big meanie because I didn't want to go into his apartment this morning. He called me at 5:50am to pick up DS. I don't mind. (xh literally lives five minutes away.) I asked xh to bring DS down, because MIL is there, and I still don't want to be in his apartment. He told me I have to come up. I said no I didn't. He said I did. (BTW, is this an unreasonable request? To ask him to meet me at the car?) So he said it was cold, and he didn't want to put on a shirt. I told him it was 65 degrees. He finally brought DS down.

I sent him a text this morning, asking him if someone else could take MIL's bf to the airport on Monday. He called me later to say no there wasn't. I told him I was uncomfortable taking his family, since that's the job of a gf, but I won't retract a promise. xh accused me of being snippy, "throwing it in his face", etc. I believe I was just being firm speaking with him (the tone I usually use for business transactions), but he said I was being nitpicky.

xh said I should stop trying to force him to make a choice, that that's manipulation. I said he kept asking me if he can do anything, and I am giving him an honest response. He said I am just trying to pressure him to date me, to make a choice he's not ready to make. (Which is exactly the reason, I told him a couple of days ago, why I hadn't told him my feelings.) I said, again, that he had asked me what he could do. xh said I am throwing it in his face, and that he just wants to know if he pick me up anything, get me lunch, etc. I said no.

xh asked if I would still be paying his cell. (Due tomorrow.) I pointed out that he had borrowed money from me for shoes. I said he could just not pay that back, and pay his cell instead. He just said "Oh". He then asked if I would be paying the car insurance. I said I would, for now, because it's a legal issue for me.

I've noticed when I tell him 'no', I get accused of being mean and vindictive. I am sure this is true in some cases. Then he starts the pleading. Then he'll accept what I'm telling him. I'm not worrying about his reactions. How do I tell if I am being overly mean or uncooperative? I don't think asking him to meet me outside is that crazy of a request.

[Dom R]

I've noticed when I tell him 'no', I get accused of being mean and vindictive. I am sure this is true in some cases. Then he starts the pleading. Then he'll accept what I'm telling him. I'm not worrying about his reactions. How do I tell if I am being overly mean or uncooperative?

I think the "that's something only a girlfriend would do" is a good benchmark.

I also think, that trying to get him to bring the child down, was a bit uncalled for.
But everything else sounded reasonable to me.


oh, one more thing:

Telling him that you are "choosing not to act on your feelings", I think was incomplete communication. Might have been better to complete it, as to WHY you are choosing not to act on them.
and/or, point out that yes you have feelings of wanting to be with him.. but you have ADDITIONAL feelings, of hurt, and not feeling safe with him any more (or however your feelings are about that).

Dont have anything more to suggest beyond that.

[DaveJ]

No you are doing what should've been done all along. He's just not happy since he's used to you catering to him. He's just whining. He really needs to realize that what you are doing for him isn't something people do unless they are in a relationship.

And you aren't making him choosing anything. You are just doing what's good for you. There's nothing manipulative about it. He can't have his cake and eat it too and that's what he's trying to do. It's his choice who he wants to be with. He just can't do both. Should tell him you need to do what's good for you and your S in the long term. You aren't going to sacrifice your happiness so he can have his little fantasy....

[Dom R]

Good point, Dave!

next time he claims "you're being manipulative!", ask him if he knows many other women who would want to be his girlfriend, while he's screwing whasserface.
You're just doing what any other self-respecting woman would do.