If you miss your chance to validate a statement she says is it acceptable DB/DR to bring it up later. As an example, we will be meeting to discuss legal matters. She said the other day that she tried to get me to go to counseling once. I thought at the time that it was because of the argument over dishes and thus unnecessary. I did not see the greater pain in her life. So, at this meeting, seems like I could easily say that I know you tried by asking for counseling. It was only once she asked but that's what she says was her attempt. Now she will not try because she did attempt.
No point bringing up the counseling. Some things are just too little too late, and that's one of them.
One thing about this dinner meeting. Be happy or at least upbeat. Do not appear crushed, cry, or otherwise appear a broken man. You can listen, but don't be a doormat. Your focus of this meeting is to be sure you protect your time with your daughter and not get screwed on child support. Her focus, no matter how you try to dissect it, is to get the most she can. She may even cry and appear broken up about things. You can be understanding, but keep in mind that some of it may only be fear of the future and fear she can't get you to pony up the child support money. I'm sure this is eventually going to require a lawyer.
As you said yourself, you've dissected this every which way. Except one. You haven't dissected this with negative possibilities in mind. She DOES actually want a divorce. She DOES believe that it's the best for her. She DOES think that you can never be the man for her. Consider this....you don't have anything to lose because you've lost it already. You have more to gain by showing her that you're a great guy, but that you are worthy of respect by establishing your boundaries.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
Well, the lack of response makes it clear that the majority have no input.
So, I will make the meeting short with the expectation that we will not finish our papers over a dinner. I must show her that I will not allow her to "eat her cake and ice cream too" by adding or subtracting things that she probably never considered or won't agree to such as child custody. I also must show that my focus is on what is best for 5D and basically not her. This actually is a bit of a 180 of late, where I won't just roll over. But, she will see it as controlling. Either way, I can't worry about that, I must think about 5D and myself. It would be nice to get to validate her but I don't feel she will open that door.
Well, the lack of response makes it clear that the majority have no input.
Doesn't mean that. Maybe it's a busy day for everyone.
Quote:
It would be nice to get to validate her but I don't feel she will open that door.
She will open that door many many times during the course of this discussion. A) She may indicate why she wants this divorce. You can validate that by saying, "I understand this is what you want". B) She will indicate how much time she should have with your daughter and why. Another opportunity to validate. "I know you love her very much and want her as often as possible. I understand that. Believe me, I wish we could both have her all the time. But look at it from my perspective; how would you like to see D5 only every other weekend?" There, validation about how she feels while establishing how you feel. Every statement out of her mouth offers an opportunity to HEAR HER and VALIDATE her feelings. You don't have to agree...you just have to understand that she owns those feelings and they aren't your to change. She can feel that way without being talked out of it.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
WAW came to pick-up 5D yesterday afternoon. 5D was excited to see her hugs, kisses, etc... I smiled at them and she saw. She briefly came inside for things for 5D. We touched elbows and she did not draw away nor slap me. LOL. 5D showed WAW all we had been doing x-mas tree, suncatchers, painting, etc...Wife stared at x-mas tree and tv looking at I guess DVD's or directv, things that were not the same last time she was there. 5D went outside and it made WAW nervous, I got to tell her that 5D and I have that worked out. As she left, 5D came back gave me big hugs, kisses, etc... I told her that her to mind her mommy, you have the greatest mommy in the whole wide world, and she loves you very much, have fun...and off to WAW car she went. At this point, I cranked my truck and left before wife was out of the drive. Wanted to show I wasn't just sitting at home. I really had nothing to do but went shopping. I got the impression she just did not want to be doing what she had to do. In other words, unhappy but not because of me, just unhappy with sitch.
The restraunt meeting is a positive because this is something she reconsidered after saying no a day earlier. Seems if she was so adamant about D she would just say deal with lawyers. However, she cannot get a no-fault/irreconcilable in my state unless I sign, and perhaps she knows that she has no grounds for fault. Thus, she might not get what she wants. Hence, she will make this concession.
I also feel that I will be given many opportunities to validate as you said. Perhaps, this will start as she gets her dinner. Mentioning papers will provide me opportunity to say things such as I understand this what you want. I forgive you for what has happened and really thank you for opening my eyes. I probably will get to mention her on attempt at counseling and thus be able to validate that as well. I will even be able to draw on my sister's "perfect marriage" where they almost split before 8 months of counseling that we did not know about. I also will then be able to say that I want to do what is in the best interest of our 5D and validate how she will feel when she misses her. I feel like I need to be ready for a short "opening statement" and hope and pray I don't have to. Maybe she will not be so strong today. Whereas, I need to be strong, confident, and cheerful. My concerns are 1) I will talk to much, 2) miss validation chances, 3) she be in a hurry to determine 5D life in one evening. I just need to remind myself to listen and pause before I speak. I believe to give her a taste of her new life such as me picking-up 5D after-school every day instead of her mother but not just a list of demands. I guess some contraversy but not "everything". She needs to see her choices and know it's in the best interests of 5D and for no other reason. This will give validation chances, "I understand how you feel but is we need to consider if this is best for our 5D."
I also feel like she has gone so far borrowing money and telling people that she may feel trapped in her decision. I wish I could say something, maybe in my "opening", that will validate those feelings and offer something that would help.
I think when she brings up legal stuff, I will have an "opening statement" memorized. I will say something like...
"I understand this is what you want. I understand you feel our problems are unsolvable. I want you to know I forgive you for everything that has happened and really want to thank you for opening my eyes to the past and the Whole New World ahead(referencing Aladdin our 1st date). I understand you feel this is best and we need to do what is best for our 5D. I understand you feel I try to be perfect. In this case, we need strive for it to do what is in the very best interest of our 5D."
Perhaps, I can mention counseling, dvd's, retreats later if the what would it do to help comment comes out of her mouth again.
Attorney visit 11/28 - Went well considering I don't want this. Basically I was told she cannot get a D. She cannot win a fault case because she has no grounds and I have to agree to a no-fault in my state. So, I can make her take more time. Also, conditions in her drawn papers are not good and thus I am in good shape.
Restraunt Meeting at 5:30pm on 11/28 - Well at 5:50, I figured she was not coming or got confused on time. Left a message on cell and answer machine. She called back few minutes later very much apologetic because she thought meeting was for Thursday. After a minute of apologies, she stopped and I said I wish I would have known I could have taken 5D to visit a friend a McDonalds. Then she said, "I feel rotten" and continued to apologize. She asked where I was and I said on the way home. She wasn't in town either. She then opened up and discussed her difficult day at work and was just now on the way home and hinted and still meeting. I got to validate her by saying I understand how hard you are working. I know you are tired. Lets just meet another time. I know you want to see 5D. Go see her and have some fun, she will make you feel better. Then she rescheduled for Thursday 5:30.
Buckets of positives for a change: 1) I can now give space, time, and vision to wife without fear of D coming soon because she has no grounds. 2) Wife apologizing profusely was great to hear. Could have listened to that all night. A 4 minute call and she apologized for 3. 3) Got to be understanding of her work again. 4) Understood she wanted to be with 5D 5) Understood she was tired and didn't really want to talk about legal stuff then without her saying it. 6) I feel by her changing her mind on having this meeting, missing it, and then rescheduling I think she will now be even more inclined to concede on many issues in her papers. She wouldn't have this meeting just to continue to say no. I also feel because of this incident that I will have more opportunities to validate her feeling regarding our R. I cannot imagine her not apologizing again thus opening a big door. Easily be able to discuss our lack of communication skills. I really want to go to the retro for this purpose. If for no other reason, it's in the best interest of our 5D. Probably can't go that far. But, it's a big door and might become a huge door. 7) I was calm and not upset of course I was not thrilled and excessively cheerful. Definitely not angry or mad. 8) Did a great job listening. 9) Even told her to not to worry about missing our meeting, we can do it again another time.
Negative - 1) I was probably a bit too understanding. I have to be careful not to over-validate I think. Keep it a bit shorter. 2) I called cell and home. I don't think both was necessary. Cell was sufficient.
I can now give space, time, and vision to wife without fear of D coming soon because she has no grounds.
This is the one thing on your list that I would not consider necessarily positive.
Something I see in Newcomers over and over is this feeling that there is a race against the clock...win your spouse back before the D papers happen. If you can drag your feet, that's even better because you'll have more time to woo them back. In some sense this is true, it does take time. But on the other hand, some of these spouse are so set on D that any stalling is seen as an attempt to be controlling. The spouse can turn more angry and vindictive the more it's dragged out. I think it's a form of pursuing to purposely drag out the D. I also wonder if they think if they are especially b@tchy if their spouse will be more likely to grant them the D without so much foot dragging. So, I know you are relieved that she can't divorce you so quickly, but don't be too surprised if it makes her angry that you won't grant her a no fault divorce.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
Yeah, I have considered that any dragging will irritate her. It definitely is not validating her feelings and can definitely be seen as controlling and pursuing. My options are to do nothing and wait for fault papers, which cannot prove, or try to come to agreement on 5D stuff. I am hopeful that it will become clear to her that we cannot decide a 5D life over a dinner and can meet several times. This will give me and her some time. But, she will also see this as dragging I suppose.
The fundamental problem with our marriage is lack of communication. When she apologizes again tonight, I will have a giant door to address it. But, it will be very difficult for me not to seem pursuing if I mention retro or anything else so we can learn to communicate even if it is for the sake of 5D. She will say we communicate just fine. She has been unhappy for a long time and couldn't tell me except the one time she asked to go to counseling when we were bickering over laundry or something. I thought it was silly to go over something simple. I certainly wasn't listening when I needed to. She didn't express it well. We both need it. Her effort was telling friends and family and trying to cope without hurting my feelings until I gave her the last straw.
I do see small positives in her lately. I think she got a taste of her life when I had 5D last and she really was lonely and didn't like it. She needs more space, time, and I say vision. The vision to see my life, 5D life, and her own life. Right now she is not looking very closely. Perhaps tonight she will look a bit more when things that are right for 5D conflict with her thoughts.
I really think she will. I cannot see how this meeting will not be a bit of paper talk, where she relents on many items, and a bit of R talk. I have to be ready for R talk. Validate, Validate, understand, shut-up, listen, and listen more. Easier to do with food in my mouth....LOL...
I was thinking the same thing as Just_Me. You need to be careful here. It seems like your W is pretty set on a D and it will take more than you stalling for her to change her mind. What are you going to do with this time that is going to make the difference? I'm not trying to bring you down here, but it is something you need to think about.
Don't let this detract from your list of positives either. You did very well yesterday. Congrats! Even if you don't feel like you are making progress in your situation, you have to admit that you are making progress with you.
Me: 29 W: 28 T: 10 M: 7 No kids 2 Dogs and 1 Cat With Parents: 09/16/07 Apartment: 10/13/07 Back Home: ~2/16/2008
