not a peep

[Dom R]

sorry to read that his head is still "obscured and inverted".

How about answering my question about marriage?

[Trixi]

Hmmm....
Well, for now I am going to try to find a house and go dark.

I think that my H is convinced I will always be here no matter what he does.

I am being mistreated (as a wife). I expect that my H act like a Husband. I understand that he is not at the point where he can do that. He has made it clear he does not want to put anything into our relationship at this point. He might in the future, but I should make my plans without considering him. (Afterall, HE does it-- just look at Christmas and New Years.)

I think that it is time for my H to realize what he will be losing. I have not given him the space to miss me. (Or maybe I should say, I have not ENFORCED the boundaries so that he would miss me.)

For now, I will not make any moves towards D because I don't want one. I will move forward with my growth (including getting out of this house) and hope and pray that God restores our marriage.

I don't know if that answers your question- but that's pretty much where I am at today.

[NikB]

Trixi - I think you're right on with your next moves, for what it's worth. Not towards D (as you said) but towards your future. It's much easier to accomodate for him joining you than it is to scramble for plans when he decides NOT to join you.. at least in my experience. So plan a wonderful Christmas and New Year's for yourself... that way you KNOW it'll be good.

[Dom R]

Sounds like a sensible choice, Trixi.

as for my question:

my question was, to restate it a little:

where do you get YOUR idea of what a good marriage is like?
What do you base your definition of marriage on?

[NikB]

Forgot to comment on this part:

I think that it is time for my H to realize what he will be losing. I have not given him the space to miss me. (Or maybe I should say, I have not ENFORCED the boundaries so that he would miss me.)

Absolutely, well past time IMHO! As for the space/boundary thing, I'd say a bit of both. All the R talks and pushing for answers and such are definitely causing no space. I don't really see what boundaries you HAVE with him though - speaking as someone who has very recently figured out what the heck a boundary even IS and beginning to learn how to enforce them.

What ARE your boundaries w/regards to your H?

(no need to answer here, but a good question to answer for yourself)

[Trixi]

When I say "plans", I mean WAY more globally than just the holidays. He wants me to plan my life how I want because I "shouldn't count on him".

I looked at more houses yesterday. YUCK. I have two more I want to check out today. There is one house that has my attention, but I am not thrilled with the price or surrounding neighborhood.

I just started reading Eat, Pray, Love and while I am not thrilled that she left her husband, I do appreciate her descriptions of being ALONE. Not "alone" in the good sense, but lonely/alone. Late at night when I am in bed and feeling ALONE, I (naturally) feel like I am the ONLY one in the universe that is feeling that way.

H has made no contact with me since he left Tuesday afternoon. Which is fine because I just don't know what I would say at this point. I am not really prepared to do a full-blown Plan B letter (ala MB website), however, I am not going to let things continue as they have. Unfortunately, probably too little too late. I have squandered my leverage. oh well.

Oh-re: Sonoma- still not sure if I can go-we are still hashing out final details to see if this deal will stay together. If it doesn't stay together, then I am going to be showing homes every weekend until we find another one.

[Trixi]

where do you get YOUR idea of what a good marriage is like?
What do you base your definition of marriage on?

Hmmm..well certainly not from my parents. I guess my idea of what a good marriage is from wishful thinking. But seriously, my grandparents have a good marriage-but I don't really get to see the inner-workings, so I can just guess why it works. MB website has some great ideas regarding POJA, etc. In fact, my ideas on what makes a good marriage are based a lot on what I have read and what I think is possible if two people negotiate a life they both love.

I also took seriously my vows that we wrote together.

I saw a sign for a class on "Dynamic Marriage" on the side of a church and I said to myself "THAT'S what I want!"

But to answer your question as far as the source of my core values regarding marriage--I only have half guesses based on seeing my friends' "normal" parents growing up. I don't know- does that answer the question?

I don't really see what boundaries you HAVE with him though -

In the very beginning when he first moved out I told him that once he went out that door getting back in would be much harder. Initially I did try to get him to take me on dates/court me but then I let my guard down. When he would start to miss me, I should have kept him at bay longer instead of letting him back in and comforting him.

[Dom R]

But to answer your question as far as the source of my core values regarding marriage--I only have half guesses based on seeing my friends' "normal" parents growing up. I don't know- does that answer the question?

aha...
yeah, that answers it well.

In the very beginning when he first moved out I told him that once he went out that door getting back in would be much harder. Initially I did try to get him to take me on dates/court me but then I let my guard down. When he would start to miss me, I should have kept him at bay longer instead of letting him back in and comforting him.

yup. I heard from an MC, that the #1 reason that recoveries after separation fail, is when the leaver is allowed back "too soon"... before a good agreement is made between both parties, of how the marriage is going to look like.

So then, with no understanding of how things are "supposed to be".... it ends up in chaos, and unhappiness, and it fails. Which then makes it even harder to attempt reconciliation again, because "well, we tried that and it failed".

To look at it another way:

"a failure to plan, is a plan for failure" :-/

I think that neither of you know "what you want".


How can you get to some place better, when you dont even know in what direction that place is?

I think that your husband has even less of an idea of what a good marriage looks like, than you do.


if both of you could agree on some definition of "what a good marriage looks like", then I think it would put his uncertainty fears to rest, and it would then also help you know what you should do next.

[Trixi]

I have attemped to dialogue with him regarding what a good marriage looks like. And, I have even said to him that I believe we both want the same result but that we can't seem to agree on how to get there. He agreed that that was probably true..but...

We did go to the MB weekend; and he agrees in the principles- BUT he doesn't want to actually DO them principles. He doesn't "feel" like it. He doesn't know that he wants to be married-to anyone.

Honestly, I think that he is quite enjoying his 'single life'. And, unfortunately, I let him live a quasi single life for many years. I don't think that he wants to BE married. Well, in fact, on Tuesday one of the things he said was "Well, now I'm an adult and I don't have any kids to be responsible for. I'm making good money. This is the time in my life where I can do what *I* want."

He is not in a place where we can actually talk about this. He can agree that we have a good foundation for a great marriage- but he isn't into putting the effort in. (paraphrasing what he said on Tuesday.)

I agree that he might have even less of an idea of what a good marriage looks like--but that doesn't stop him from thinking that we have "already tried" and that "we can't change the past".

Believe me, I would be THRILLED if he was open to discussing what a good marriage looked like and we could negotiate a solution we both were happy with. But he is talking about moving out of state for goodness sake.

[Dom R]

sounds like time to cut him off, then.
you keep pursuing.. he keeps looking to get further away.
now, to "out of state".

So.. pursuing him.. even just "staying open" to him...
"isnt working".

time for the LRT, sounds like.