Besides, xh just told me to stop during our last conversation, as he was confused about my intentions. So, I'm going to stop.
(stop saying nice things to him, or making out with him?)
that makes no sense. i'd say your intentions are perfectly clear. you love him, and you want the two of you to be together. EXCLUSIVELY together.
I would suggest you tell that to him, and then tell him that if he wants you to stop, then to give you a better reason, or you'll keep telling him how you feel.
(the SEX/making out on the other hand.. is understandably confusing )
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
PS: saying "she doesnt respect you", means nothing to him. It has no traction to it. she "loooooves him". you cant make any statement about her feelings about him, that he will believe.
What would have more impact is if you tell him that YOU lose respect for him being an adulteror.
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
that makes no sense. i'd say your intentions are perfectly clear. you love him, and you want the two of you to be together. EXCLUSIVELY together.
Okay, you got me, I didn't write out the whole converstion from earlier. (I also skip other boring details...like when we just have nice chats. Most of it isn't this dramatic...) xh had called to ask me why I was giving him mixed signals. (I was trying to jump him again last night. ) I started the whole physical thing again, the past few days, just to see what would happen. Total 180, try something new, monitor results, etc.
Anyway, xh called to say he was confused. Synopsis of what I told him: I love him, always have, saw all his changes, realized what a great R we could have. That we were both learning and growing, and it was worth reexamining us being together. Yes I had been done for months, but realized how comfortable and nice it is with him, still. (Note to self...should probably also add that our baby is motivation for me as well.) That's why I'm giving him hugs, and trying to ML with him again. (Properly protected, of course!) Because I want to. (He clearly wants to...it's pretty obvious, if you know what I mean.) I told him, like we talked about, I'm not 'hiding' any of my feelings or intentions anymore.
I then told him, I am of course hurt and angry about the JD thing. That's why I feel so hurt that, at times, I can't hang out with him. That I really, really like our time together...however, especially at his house, I find it overwhelming, and often need some space. He of course told me how much he likes it, too, and gave me the 'being friends' shtick. Which reminds me...I need to insert a conversation about how 'exes can't be friends' the next time he says that.
xh said we can't ML, as that causes problems. I told him the ML isn't the issue...it's that JD is in the middle that's an issue. (Insert convo I referenced earlier, where I told him he was being used, it was an affair, he's too blinded, etc.)
Dave...I agree about the competing with an affair. That's why I hadn't tried being affectionate before recently. I already knew that. After his reaction to my pulling back the past few days, I figured he was more attached than I thought, so I thought I might as well try adding a little affection in to see what happened. The last time I DB'd (granted, he wasn't smack in the middle of a stupid affair), he'd respond really well to the random ILY's and affection. In fact, he ate it up. I believe I tested the waters a few months back, and he shot me down. Figured it couldn't hurt to try again, and see. Which makes me wonder how rosy fantasy world is, after all...
I told him if he wanted me to stop, I would. But he had to be clear with me, and say 'no' or 'stop'. Telling me 'not because you'll yell' or 'maybe later' is ambiguous, and not clear boundary-setting. He asked if I would be mad, and I said of course not. I told him that he is entitled to tell me not to try to initiate or touch him...that's his right, and I respect it.
IIRC, he probably also said something about my being 'welcome' to stay at his house tomorrow when he has the kid. And I, again, told him that made me uncomfortable... Maybe instead of saying flat out no, since he keeps inviting me, I should say "Not while you're still in contact with JD". That way he can't try the "we broke up but are still friends" line, lol.
Anyway....that's the whole convo we had...is that better?
What would have more impact is if you tell him that YOU lose respect for him being an adulteror.
I said that, too. Actually, I said both things. I told him that I had thought he was better than that.
The weird thing is, it may not seem to right away, but I've noticed stuff seems to sink in with him if I repeat it enough. I said "you're dating her" all this week, so now he will freely admit that. So, now I'm going to try variations on "you're having an affair," "you're screwing a married woman," etc., and see what happens... I have to just say it, and not make it sound like a discussion point in debate, tho.
That's why I'm trying to find the best approach to this stuff. I've been thanking him a lot lately for respecting my need for space, etc., hoping the 'respect' part will get through his thick skull. We talk about my issues, as well...he does know me very well, and I find his insight helpful.
Actually, we also talk a lot about perfectly mundane things. It's not always this nonsense. You guys just get all the dirty laundry.
Oh...forgot to say...this wouldn't have worked a few months back... I think all the standard, early on DB rules of "no R talk", don't push, don't ask, just validate, etc etc were necessary to help us both defuse, and learn to just hang around each other again. I'm just now getting to a point where I am able to try these things.
We do spend good QT time together...I'd say this is, maybe, 15-20% of our interactions. He is also very validating of my feelings...I can just call him when I'm feeling upset or anxious, so long as I don't call him names. I'm pretty sure he calls me first whenever something is bothering him.
This story is completely bizarre. I don't get him and I don't get you either. Let me summarize and you tell me if I have it right.
He wants you to have a bf to see to your needs He has a gf He doesn't see a problem with the two of you spending nights together since "it's for his child". You're willing to basically share him with this OW because you want sex It's positive that you get to snuggle with him without him objecting (but he still thinks you should be having sex with some other guy)
Am I missing something? Probably not. I've seen this same story about 20 or more times on here and it's always when the guy leaves. He has another woman, but still spends all this time with his wife, juggling the two of them. Usually there is sex involved. The husband having sex with both women, but still living with the gf. What I never understand is why the wife doesn't just cut him off entirely. Why they are willing to be the fallback plan or a little diversion from their H (or XH's) gf. Basically, the H is cheating on two women at once, and the wife doesn't really have a problem with it. She still sees this guy as a catch. It's nice that he wants to see his child, but do you have to be part of the package deal. If it's solely about the child, then he should be able to have visitation without you. Where does you self-esteem have to be in order to see all of this as okay? I try to imagine how things would be if you reconciled and I can't imagine how you could trust him. He's actually cheating on OW with you. If he was with you, he'd cheat with some other woman because you've done nothing that indicates that sharing his affections is a problem.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
Because, he wasn't always like this. (Not mad at you, mad at him.... ) This is his MO while he's in crisis mode...we had three good years. And, after (I thought) his crisis was resolved the first time, we had a great year and half. He totally got it. Turns out he never resolved his crisis. (Birth of a child is a common trigger.) I believe that, if he can finally finish this stupid crisis, then he and I can have an awesome M. Because I have seen a ton of personal growth from him the last year. Before that, I wasn't very willing to talk to him.
Also, I'm not perfect. I freely admit to having had an EA, years ago. Feel guilty as he!! about it, still. Was very tempted to have my own affair...but didn't... Writing here helps me see and learn about my own relationship issues. That is even more valuable to me, regardless of xh.
For me, it's worth the chance.
Yeah, I know how crazy it sounds. That's why I'm hanging out here, trying to get it sorted out. And will be starting IC soon. I feel less confused than I did a few months ago. So, that's good.
Quote:
You're willing to basically share him with this OW because you want sex
Yeah...not really...I cut him off two months ago. I ran into the problem I figured I would...my libido is driving me crazy!
Thanks for the perspective...don't misunderstand me. I'm looking for feedback of all kinds, or I wouldn't post on the web!
Quote:
If he was with you, he'd cheat with some other woman because you've done nothing that indicates that sharing his affections is a problem.
This is what I'm trying to work on...
It may seem small, but my speaking up about little things, like the picture, not wanting to sleep over there, telling him my feelings, are huge steps for me. It's a huge, ingrained habit of mine I'm trying to break.
Just so you know...I wasn't saying that you should kick him to the curb and never look back. I was actually trying to say that he'll chase more if you have some boundaries and if you show that he needs to respect you by not trying to be with two women at the same time. I personally think your chances are better if you are less available. Could you cut down on the amount of calls that you make to him or the number you are available to take? Could you be less available for these little nightly visitations complete with cuddling? If you haven't started truly living your own life (GAL), perhaps you need some other interests (and I'm not talking about other men).
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
)
) I started the whole physical thing again, the past few days, just to see what would happen. Total 180, try something new, monitor results, etc.
After his reaction to my pulling back the past few days, I figured he was more attached than I thought, so I thought I might as well try adding a little affection in to see what happened. The last time I DB'd (granted, he wasn't smack in the middle of a stupid affair), he'd respond really well to the random ILY's and affection. In fact, he ate it up. I believe I tested the waters a few months back, and he shot me down. Figured it couldn't hurt to try again, and see. Which makes me wonder how rosy fantasy world is, after all...
(Not mad at you, mad at him....