an xh, his FF, Thanksgiving, MIL, and one psuedo-R

[kml]

I'll tell you what would clear his mind faster than anything - you dating someone else.

NOT that I'm recommending bringing another person into this mess- but I guarantee you, if you were dating, and your S was playing with an OM --- your ex would suddenly wake up and smell the coffee.

So - how to get there without involving another person? By giving the APPEARANCE of dating. Bring S over when you are all dressed up like for a date - and rush out of there because you have to "meet some friends". Have flowers sent to your house. Don't be available for his calls when he has the baby. Or answer them from a noisyt party or bar. Or play a TAPE of a noisy party or bar in the background when you take his call.

Ellie

[azhira]

I just feel like crap. Still. Wish I hadn't gone and opened something I shouldn't have in my own head.

Ellie...I think you're right... I don't have the heart to really date, and I know that would just complicate this mess even further. Even if I were totally through, I wouldn't want to date for a long while. (I have to admit, if there were no kid, I doubt I'd be talking to him. But, kid, plus major growing up in other ares of his life, so I'm still paying attention.)

We did talk some last night, and he did admit that he didn't like the idea of me dating, but "couldn't stop me". The talk seemed to imply that he couldn't understand how I hadn't already met somehow. Um, how? Moron. I work. I pick up the baby. I go to bed. Repeat. By the weekend, I just want to spend time with my kid.

Weird that TWG and PM both seem to come up a lot more lately in our discussions. I suspect he was more bothered by those two guys than he has let on in the past. I wonder if he doesn't really believe me that neither one turned physical...?

Also weird. We wound up cuddling some last night when he dropped by to see the baby. (???) Said he would do whatever it took to be able to continue to sleep next to him at night. Except, of course, for JD to go bye-bye.

Oh. As my hormones are totally out of control (I'm HD, and no nookie for two months...yiiiikes...)...I ...uh ...made a very forward pass at xh. He did turn me down. (Barely.) He said it "wasn't because of JD", just that he didn't want me to yell at him anymore.

The good thing...xh didn't freak out that I climbed on him. Also good, he told me no, and I didn't get upset, or freak out, or get mad. (Like he thought I would.) He told me he was afraid I would be mad at him if we did, since, apparently, all our problems come down us having sex.

The bad thing...I feel like I could climb a tree!

[Dom R]

Also weird. We wound up cuddling some last night when he dropped by to see the baby. (???) Said he would do whatever it took to be able to continue to sleep next to him at night. Except, of course, for JD to go bye-bye.

why should he? you're still letting him be close to you.
there are exactly two possibilities why he might break it off with JD, seems like:

1. you tell her husband about it, and he gets HER to drop your exh.

2. you stick to some boundaries, and cut him off, and he decides that you and your child,are more important than his dumb fantasy affair.

what you are doing now, sure isnt working, nor does it look likely to work.

He told me he was afraid I would be mad at him if we did, since, apparently, all our problems come down us having sex.

"no, our problems all come down to you having sex with SOMEONE ELSE!!!"


Yell at him! He deserves it! He needs a wake-up call, instead of cuddling from you

The bad thing...I feel like I could climb a tree!

and he KNOWS it.. and figures that he can still have both of you, because he thinks that you are weaker than he is.
Is he right, or wrong?

Damn.. i should probably follow my own advice
except that my wife doesnt respond well, to me showing my own emotions, and how badly she has/is hurting me.
Whereas, your (ex)H responds in a positive manner.

So, i think that type of approach "doesnt work" for my situation, but "has been shown to work" for yours.

[Dom R]

Oh.. the other difference between my situation and yours... my wife doesnt come over wanting to snuggle every night, either.
sigh.

he wants to be with you. If you push him about it, he will pick you.
it just may take him a week of being "out in the cold" to believe that you are serious, about not letting him have both of you.

PS: did you try the "I want you, just as you are right now" tack?

[azhira]

Well, I initiated all the physical contact. Asked him if it was okay as I went. Total 180 for me. I've let him initiate everything the last year or so. He even told me the hugs were nice this morning.

To be honest, all I was really thinking about was that I seriously needed to get laid. Figured it was better than a random guy in the bar...lol... Anyway, figured if I didn't try, I wouldn't get any.

Her husband is sniffing around. I keep thinking he's going to figure it out. I also wonder how much of what she's telling xh is a lie...you know, poor poor controlled me, pity me. Maybe I should mention it to xh... It's so tempting to send her husband a message on MySpace. (I don't have an account. Hate the thing.) Don't think I will, tho.

Well, on some level, he's choosing to do this. Don't know why, though. He's not dumb about affairs. Even he saw this coming at first. We chatted about it. Got the old "it just happened" yesterday. lol He's still following the script...

Yup, tried the "I like you as you are" thing. Didn't help.

Only talked to him a little today. I was having lots of anxiety, so I called him. This works well...I just said, "Having lots of anxiety, still, after this weekend." He just listened. That was it. Quick phone call.

I keep thinking we're getting closer to the real issue, whatever it is, the more he and I talk.

ETA: Was unclear.

[azhira]

Ok. So you guys don't let me backslide, okay??

We had a really good talk yesterday while I was at work. About how we are both really bad conflict-avoiders, and both had a problem with assumptions. So, we are both going to try being completely honest with each other. So far, so good. During the talk, xh said he we should order a pizza later and hang out some, and I agreed.

Well, after work, I realized I was just really upset, still having trouble with my appetite, and just didn't feel like it at that point. So I called him. He asked why I was canceling. I said I felt really hurt, and just wanted some alone time to cry. He asked if we could do pizza after. I said I didn't know how I would feel--maybe. Since I had been meaning to mention it, I asked him, if were such good friends, why didn't he invite me to do things with the rest of his friends? I could almost hear the light bulb. He said he didn't know, but would think about it.

xh then asked if I could drop off DS on my way home. I said sure, but I wanted him to come down to the car. He asked why. I said, for one, I always dawdle when I go in. Two, I can't stand that picture of JD in the living room. xh quickly offered to lay it face down. I thanked him, but said I just wanted him to meet me downstairs.

We talked for a while longer. Good convo...politics, world events, etc. Actually, talking to him helped me calm down. But I reiterated that I needed some time alone, because I was hurting. During the drive down, he said he really needed some time to do schoolwork. We rearranged the baby plans...I would take DS home (because he was sound asleep), and then xh would come by later.

Twenty minutes after I got home, xh called. Was I okay? Was there anything he could do? I thanked him for his concern (instead of giving him a 'duh' response), and just asked when he would be by later.

xh came by much later. Baby was asleep. He laid down on my bed beside where I had laid DS down. I wound up laying down behind xh, and cuddling up against him. I've noticed he's not rejecting my attempts at affection like he did months ago. He said the 'hug' was nice, so I just laid there for awhile with him.

He said he 'needs' the baby at night. He told me again how he accommodated me while I was trying to establish bf'ing. (We had an exceptionally hard time. He was supportive, and I couldn't have done it without his help.) I finally caved, and said he could spent the night 'tonight'. The main reason really being because I know how much he did to work around our nursing issues. I said he was more than welcome to take DS tomorrow night. He made some comment about the baby sleeping better with me, because of his attachment to nursing. (He wakes up once a night because he's thirsty. He's not an all-night-nurser, nor at his age does he 'need' me to sleep anymore.) xh asked me to stay at his place tomorrow night.

I told him that I'm not staying the night at his house anymore. (Ew ew ew, don't want near that bedspread!) I said, again, he should just take DS overnight. He said something really weird about being willing to stay every night at my place if necessary to be by his kid. I told him that didn't make sense...he knows he can have DS overnight. He just said, again, that it was 'better for DS' if I'm around. (They spent a whole weekend together without me, and were fine. Riiiight.)

xh asked about my libido. I said I still wanted to jump him. (I think it's all these super-intense talks.) He said I should 'get a bf' to solve that problem. I got irritated--told him that was a mean and hurtful thing to say, that I didn't want a bf, and point-blank said that adding another person to this mess was a horrible idea.

So, this morning, I curled up around xh for a bit. He gave me a big huge bear hug. Got two more hugs when he left.

I called him when I was headed out for work. One of the best tricks I learned, years ago, was to do random, light calls. So, I called to ask him how to say 'clean' in Spanish. I could remember 'diaper', but not clean. Was just a five minute convo, but I told him I had been afraid when he didn't initially answer it was because someone was at his house with him. He laughed, said no, that he was at school. (I could hear school sounds in the background.) Turns out I did know how to say it, but had forgotten. Oh well. He asked if I could stop by his house for an hour or so with DS later. I said I didn't know. He said he'd like to pick DS up early...I said I wanted to stay later at work, then do some cardio. xh said he if I would come by his place, he'd be fine with me staying later at work. I said that would work, except I hate that picture. xh said he would make sure it was put away when I get there. (I'm hoping maybe she'll get mad when he forgets to put it back up one of these days!)

As an aside...I noticed DS (13 months) is looking for me at night now. At least, it's obvious that that's what he's doing...he may have done it before. He'd squirm, complain, open his eyes, say 'Ma', and reach out to touch my face before going back to sleep.

Things that work...

Obviously, he's more attached than even I had realized.

Just telling him "I'm upset/weird/uncomfortable" and then what seems to work well. I don't justify my feelings. When I don't yell, don't tell him he's being a jerk, he tends to offer to help.

Apparently, he's open to my being affectionate with him now. He's not completely responding in kind, but he's not shoving me off or turning cold like he used to. I ask him if it's okay, and to tell me to stop if he doesn't like it, but I'm going to keep doing this unless he tells me otherwise. I'm also not going to 'hide' my feelings anymore. If I feel like calling him a pet name, I will. If I feel like saying 'ILY', I will. I'm upset, I'm just going to tell him.

I think I need to be 'scarce' this weekend...

[azhira]

Forgot to say...I'm also asking questions in response to xh's weird responses now. Not attacking or anything...just "why?". It does seem to get him to pause and think...

[Dom R]

Twenty minutes after I got home, xh called. Was I okay? Was there anything he could do? I thanked him for his concern (instead of giving him a 'duh' response), and just asked when he would be by later.

Pfft.
Tell him the truth, when he asks. quit being a conflict avoider; HE brought it up.

"Is there anything I can do?"
"Why yes there is. Trash that picture of her, instead of just 'laying it down', and dump her.

Even if you wont do it for me.. she's MARRIED. That makes you an adulterer. That really makes me lose respect for you."



["and dont even try the "well we can just be friends garbage"... you already tried that one"]

Things that work...

Obviously, he's more attached than even I had realized.

Just telling him "I'm upset/weird/uncomfortable" and then what seems to work well. I don't justify my feelings. When I don't yell, don't tell him he's being a jerk, he tends to offer to help.

Apparently, he's open to my being affectionate with him now. He's not completely responding in kind, but he's not shoving me off or turning cold like he used to. I ask him if it's okay, and to tell me to stop if he doesn't like it, but I'm going to keep doing this unless he tells me otherwise. I'm also not going to 'hide' my feelings anymore. If I feel like calling him a pet name, I will. If I feel like saying 'ILY', I will. I'm upset, I'm just going to tell him.

I think I need to be 'scarce' this weekend...

Looks like you're going the "compete with OW" route.
Hope it works for you.

My counsellor told me to not try to "compete" with OM, because it's a losing battle. He didnt say why.
My guess is because you're "real",and they're a "fantasy",and fantasy usually wins out over reality. (for people who dont mind living their life in fantasy-land, anyways...)

[azhira]

Even if you wont do it for me.. she's MARRIED. That makes you an adulterer. That really makes me lose respect for you."

Must have been channeling you...just told him this five minutes ago. I said she had no respect for him, and for all he knew, she was lying about her husband. I said she needed to either leave her husband, or quit playing around, but that it's not his problem to fix. Also told him I didn't like hanging out at his place since he's 'playing affair' there.

Nah, not intentionally trying to compete...lol... I had wanted to do all these things this time, I just wasn't before. Besides, xh just told me to stop during our last conversation, as he was confused about my intentions. So, I'm going to stop. If he liked it, he can come after me...

[DaveJ]

My counsellor told me to not try to "compete" with OM, because it's a losing battle. He didnt say why.
My guess is because you're "real",and they're a "fantasy",and fantasy usually wins out over reality. (for people who dont mind living their life in fantasy-land, anyways...)

Pretty much. On one side you have all the new mystery, passion etc etc from OM. Also, at that stage one does not see or chose to see any faults in the person they are enamored with. Partially hormonal. They are completely obsessed. Kind of like high on drugs. 100% dillusional. Then there's you, the person that she sees all the faults with and perhaps isn't with you because of some of those faults. All the anger, resentment, etc etc. It's totally unfair. You can't level the playing field until they get off that "high".