WAW staying, I'm leaving to give her space..

[GFI]

jaBRWok,

Looks like staying gets the vote - Actually I'm pretty pleased bout that cos I've been going through similar dilemma to you and I'm still at home at the moment.

However,as I understand it, you have additional challenge of dealing with the house arrest thing and work. If you stay can you make stuff work without impacting on W too much? On the other hand, dealing with this thing together might be productive(?)

The thing abut staying IMO is that you need to carve out a convincing justification for yourself and to still work on GingAL. I think this is a bit more of a challenge than it would pose if you left - cos so many things around are the same. But, at least W will see any changes you make. The kicker is that its doubly hard to keep going in the face of negativity and antagonism - or at least thats what I have found.

The thing about going is that will be the time during which your W will think you'll crack and hit the bottle again. Not hitting the bottle would be a pretty powerful message - providing you can carry it off that is!

Whatever you decide stick with it and give it your all - best of luck!

[jab]

I don't want to sound like I am not taking ownership of my mistakes. I take responsibility for everything I did that was wrong in the past. The only thing I was in denial about between August and the day she dropped the bomb (OCT 22) was that our R was getting better. I admit I WAS in denial about alot of things and I WAS screwing up alot of things for a long time, but not anymore.

That's what frustrates me so much about all this. I have been in the process of improving myself and changing my actions and thinking for 7 months now. Honest, permanent change takes time, (baby steps) especially changes in thinking. I actually was feeling pretty good about myself and our relationship since August. W can't see it because of her state of mind (she needs IC) and current counselor cannot either (how much can a person honestly know after only a few 1 hour biased sessions). They both think I just started the recovery process but I've already come alot further than they think and if I argue otherwise they just say that I'm in 'denial' and I'm just a 'dry drunk'. I've been through all that already (months ago, before W dropped the bomb) and moved on for crying out loud! I know I got a long way to go, give me a chance!

I understand why they may feel that way, I guess I've just been really annoyed by the counselor's opinion from day 1 that if I do not accept this S or D that I'm not 'honoring' my wife's wishes and I'm 'self-centered'. There was not one uttering of '...maybe S or D is not the best option, here are some alternatives....let's try to understand why you feel that there is no other alternative....' NOTHING LIKE THAT!!!

I guess if I do decide to stay that I propose this to her:

1) I'm staying and it's NOT because I'm 'not considering her needs'.
2) I'm staying because I believe we can accomplish the same goal without either of us moving out right now, if I honor her other needs (make myself scarce & continue working on myself).
3) When she's home I'll stay in another room and she can pretend I'm not there if she wants.
4) I'll sleep on the couch if she wants.
5) I'll find my own transportation.
6) No more R talk unless she wants to bring it up.
7) It will save us both money.
8) She can move out whenever she wants but I hope she doesn't.
9) Everyone will benefit (kids especially) if I do things correctly, even if our marriage is unfixable.
10) I start DB'ing HARD - won't tell her this I'll just start doing it.

Anything wrong with any of this? (In the middle of writing this 'new' SBT counselor on phone says she'll see us THUR and agrees that I should NOT move out at this point)

[ann25]

Good for you. That sounds like a well thought out plan. Read that over and over again.

Smart C!!

Good Luck

Ann

[jab]

Well, in theory my plan looks good but reality may be a different thing....

Today is a new day and the rollercoaster got some octane boost! After talking with a friend that went through a similar situation, decided that new C should be the one to suggest I stay instead of me. I would continue with my plans with apt in case something went seriously wrong. Worst case, I'd lose deposit money if I stayed in house instead.

Sticking to my plan, I stayed a little late at work and went straight to AA meeting to give W some breathing room. Got home around 7:30PM. I noticed immediately that W was not in a very good mood (very cold). I continued to act 'as if', interacting happily with kids. W almost immediately asked whether I got the apt yet. I said yes, app is waiting for final approval and then I sign. I said nothing more. D4 throwing a temper tantrum, W not being cool to kids at all, really noticed she was stressing hard (D4 has been acting a little rebellious but noticing W having much harder time).

After kids go to bed, asked W if anything is wrong. She says "I just hate this situation". I just said that I understood. I mentioned to that I made an appt with new C because I couldn't schedule a suitable time with old C and wanted to try new C that was closer to pending apt. She immediately said "you aren't moving out are you?". I first thought that maybe she found my post or something on DB (very nervous for a moment). I replied "I am moving forward with apt but like I told you, I am having second thoughts about it". She blew up. She said f*** the new counselor, she didn't want nothing to do with it (The alien demon possessed woman comes out now). I will try to make this short... Started acccusing me of constantly pressuring her, not doing anything but fighting with her, me wearing wedding ring was pressure, me wanting to put pictures of us in my office pressure, new C was not what she agreed to (it was also pressure), basically everything I do as a living human being is pressure and not what she wants, kids are pressuring, work is pressuring, it went on and on. She said she was going to move out and file D if I didn't get apt and that I was "killing any chance of this M working out", that she couldn't take the pressure and I'm not doing anything she wants. She gave every reason possible why new C was a 'burden' on her. She said alot of things that really were distorted IMO. There is something really wrong going on in her head...her perception of everything is very distorted. I haven't done everything right the last few weeks (learning process, trial and error) but honestly, been doing alot correctly and really trying to help around the house. I haven't touched her in any way (hug, hand on shoulder), no ILU, for over a week now because I knew it was bothering her.

I was calm for the most part through this. I said "how am I pressuring you? We agreed to try another C, we agreed to continue C through S". She said, "No, I didn't agree to anything, I thought once S started, C would stop. You just want a new C because you are not hearing what you want." I said, "If you were in the doctor's and they said you needed surgery and you were unsure, wouldn't you want a second opinion before going under the knife?". I reiterated that I never said I wasn't going to move out, I just said I wasn't sure if it was the best choice based on several opinions and I wanted to make the right choice, give it the best shot before throwing in the towel. She basically then said "Either you move out or I'm filing D papers this week. If you show me the signed APT lease before Thur, then I'll go to new C. If I like her, I'll keep going." I reiterated that I would sleep on the couch if it would help (she immediately said she wanted this). I said "ok" and did last night. She barely talked to me the rest of the night & this morning.

This morning, she said she wanted car to do some things, couldn't take the pressure. I said 'that's good, you should do something'. She said she was getting groceries and later on take kids to mall. I said pick me up from work whenever you want. I noticed her getting ready to leave, more of the makeup and primping. I noticed she wasn't wearing ANY of her rings that I gave her over the years including wedding rings. Ok, she's getting groceries. I then thought to myself, I haven't seen the rings on for awhile now. Wonder if she will have them on when she picks me up? I don't even think she wore them to the bar last week when she went out with friends either. They've been just sitting in her jewelery box. I'm really keeping a close eye on this now but saying nothing. I think her excuse about work is not what's going on. I'm watching her close again without snooping. IMHO she is 'emotionally divorced' and this is scaring the hell out of me.

I think I may have no choice but to leave the house to have a chance with W, but I'm waiting for C on THUR to decide situation. If I do leave, I'm not sure how to handle things. I mean, I know the DB steps work when W leaves, but what about my situation where I'm getting 'kicked out'?

[SingleAgain]

I think I may have no choice but to leave the house to have a chance with W, but I'm waiting for C on THUR to decide situation. If I do leave, I'm not sure how to handle things. I mean, I know the DB steps work when W leaves, but what about my situation where I'm getting 'kicked out'?

jaBRWok,
Your gut tells you she is up to more than you know. She is setting you up and as soon as you are out she will file. If she was not going to file on you why hold it over your head? W and C both say you are in denial. They are trying to get you to accept this. Why do you need to accept this if she was not going to file? Stay in the house. Call her bluff.

Watch yourself. She is not interested in being your friend nor is she looking out for you. If she can't get you to play ball be mindful of the restraining order trick. All it will take is an argument and a phone call to the heat and you will be in hand cuffs.

Anyone else seeing what I'm seeing?

[jab]

SingleAgain,

I truly appreciate your opinion. I'm very wary about what you are saying. Old C was saying i'm in mostly in denial about my prior drinking and damage it has caused, not an imminent D with W.

If the timing of all this wasn't so sh***, I would call her bluff in a heartbeat. If she leaves and I have no transportation to work, I'm screwed. I have been diligently searching for a ride in case that happens.

I do think she is up to more than she is admitting, I'm not really sure what is going on in her head but I do know it isn't pretty. I just have to ride this coaster for awhile, pay attention to things and be calm, see if any new information is revealed. She has also said some things over the past few weeks that suggest that maybe she does just need a break from me to cool off. She has said to me several times that if she was hell bent on D then she would've filed already. She wants to see if she misses me when I'm gone for a period. Sometimes she says she wants to date, sometimes she says she has no interest in dating anyone at all. Her opinions change with her mood. Like before, she said she is in a holding pattern to see what/how I do and what/how she feels about our R after a few months.

Anyhow, I am waiting for new C to analyze the situation, me keeping a watchful eye and open ear before making any more decisions on this and am just going to stay as far away from any conversation about R with W until then.

Her father IS in hospital, just had lung cancer surgery as well, so she is really under alot of stress lately.

[PMA_Baby!]

Hey bud. Hang in there. I was told not to leave the house by my attorney. Some people do to alleviate stress but sometimes it back fires. You need to be all business now. I am in the same position and didnt want to be the one to leave the "family home".
All u can do is take care of yourself. Live the mantra "you do what u need to do and I'll do what I have to do". Whenever she throws empty threats of filing at you. And I do believe at this point she's bluffing. Even if she does the initial filing it's just the very beginning stages and takes a long time if u want it to. Just stop fighting. Let go of the rope. I know it's easier said then done. We're all there. But just stay calm and reply "you do what u need to do to make u happy. I'm not going to stand in your way of happiness". Just by saying this will give her a false sense of control/security they are needing right now. Let her go do what she needs to do. Until u do this she can't begin to really figure out what she wants. As I writing this I'm applying this to my sitch

Good Luck. B

[PMA_Baby!]

Single makes a good point about calling the cops. Because of your past issues of A abuse she could easily escalate an agruement. Dont fall for it. It will definitely hurt your case. Just "kill her w kindness". Bad choice of words ;). Patience is the key. You have no control. Let go. Why is it that we put so much stock in what our spouses r spewing? We r so insecure during this difficult time. Our worlds have been ripped apart. Dont believe anything they say.... Because they dont know what they want. Their feelings can change just as quickly as they changed the first time. Hey this is pretty theraputic. Writing what I preach that is... lol

B

[SingleAgain]

jaBRWok,
A new C sounds good. Any car pooling info in your area? Maybe call the dept of transportation in your city for leads? Keep your chin up. Enjoy your time with your kid(s). That is precious time well spent.

[GFI]

jaBRWok,

Feelin for you on this turn of events. All I can offer is that my W delivered several such episodes in the past few months. All major blow-outs and while at first I was on the offensive, I learnt from here to validate and listen. Over the months the blow-ups have become fewer and less intensive. Its as if something had built up in her for months/years and then it all came tumbling out in anger and resentment. Once out, we have had periods of calm. The thing is at the moment your W might not be able to see shades of gray - all she can see is black and white. Or at least thats what happened to me - either I had to go or she had to go. There was no middle ground. Is there any way you can create a little wiggle room for her to see the middle ground options, even if just for now?

Chin up!