not a peep

[Trixi]

H has been at his sis's since last Friday and he's made no contact. (Of course, neither have I so I guess we're even...?)

I am still quite sad having bouts of crying. But one good thing, I have made some more progress with regard to sorting thru stuff.

Over on the MB site I was told I was being 'bamboozled', that H is cheating by going out on dates and I should immediately go into Plan B (aka Go Dark). One person really gave me a good 2x4 on my head when they said "Do you think that little of yourself that you are prepared to wait around while he looks for a replacement?" Yipes.

Here is where I get stuck in circular thinking: All WAS's are convinced that D is the only answer for their happiness. They all say things (and do things) that by logical standards, would indicate that we LBS's should just throw in the towel and move on. But we don't. And why is that? It's because we have the hope that they will be returning. And some of the WASs do return. So how can you ever tell which one actually means what they say and which one doesn't?

I am thinking tomorrow I will send him a text wishing him a happy thanksgiving if he doesn't beat me to it. They're 3 hours ahead, so I will stall a little bit and see what happens. I am still supposed to pick him up from the airport on Monday and I am (stupidly) hoping that he has had some great epiphany (for the positive) while he's been gone. HAHAHAHA. If he had had an epiphany, he would have called. Why do I insist in hoping??

Boy, it's this sort of thing that can make a person want to never risk getting hurt again. This is just horrible.

Biggest fear--I do a Plan B/Go Dark and he starts D proceedings/tells me to move out before I am ready.

To all-Happy Thanksgiving!

[cat03]

But we don't. And why is that? It's because we have the hope that they will be returning. And some of the WASs do return. So how can you ever tell which one actually means what they say and which one doesn't?
========================================
How can I tell for sure that I wont' have an accident on my way home from work? how can I tell someone i love will have a terrible illness? You simply can't, you just live one day at a time.
Why I did i wait for my H for 8mths? because I meant what i said when at the altar I said "til death do us part" because I wanted to be true to my vows and not throw in the towel when the going got tough (and tough it did, still is!)

Do you think that little of yourself that you are prepared to wait around while he looks for a replacement?"
=======================================
I bet this person hasn't walked in your shoes, I wouldnt' listen to one more word from this person. You guys have been together so long, this fight is worth the fighting and the waiting... I hope that one day you look back and will not be sorry that you tried your darnest to fix your M, that you never took the easy way out and gave up.

I remember someone telling me "what kind of a w would you b if you bail out when your M suffers?"

I call these times of sufferings my trial by fire, I have become a better person through it all, I have learn quite a bit, not the way I would've wanted to learn, but I have. Let this trial of yours be that, an opportunity to be stronger. A great wonderful book that really helps me is "the wounded woman", give it a try hon, hang in there)))))))))))

[Trixi]

Thanks for writing Cat.

I am feeling pretty despondent right now. I did end up sending a TM to H on Thanksgiving and several hours later he called and we spoke for a few minutes.

As I look back, things have been rocky for a long time and maybe I should just give up. Waaaay back when, I made a big mistake because I didn't fully respect that sex and looking nice for him were legitimate needs. Additionally, thyroid was off the charts screwed up, so even if I did recognize the legitimacy, I would have had a hard time filling those needs. A couple years ago I was FINALLY diagnosed properly; I lost weight, got energy- it really changed me back into who I really am. BUT, by then, he was long gone mentally. (Thinking about his great escape once our youngest graduated.) I got him to stay one year longer than he wanted. But this waffly thing has been an ongoing issue.

The thing that I see happening, though, is that my self-respect is going to end up in the toilet. (Not to mention, I am sure HE won't respect me.) No wife should have to be the "back up" plan when H can't find some one new on match.com. How can I "stand by him" while he actively tries to find someone new to fall in love with? That's just horrible. It's not like he stumbled into some sort of EA/PA because he works with someone and now he is confused because he has feelings for them. No. He just simply wants to go and find someone "better for him." And I have let him cake eat because I keep hoping that he'll come to his senses.

I know I am babbling here. I am just trying to talk myself thru this. This has ended up being an online journal for me. Funny thing though, I can be all "tough" here; but when I see him, talk to him, get a text from him, smell him-- all of my resolve flies out the window.

[MaxP]

How are you doing 99? Been away from here for a bit. What's new in your sitch?

[Dom R]

Biggest fear--I do a Plan B/Go Dark and he starts D proceedings/tells me to move out before I am ready.

That means that you're not ready.

a true plan B, means that you are willing to say "good bye" to him, if he doesnt want to act like someone married.
It is quite possible that he would file, if you did that.

So, dont go down that road, until you are truely ready for that.

The thing that I see happening, though, is that my self-respect is going to end up in the toilet.

Well, that's a problem. but not for the reason you might think.

it's a problem, if your self-respect, aka "self-worth", is dependant on how others view you.

Isnt it best, if your self-worth, is based on your values, not other peoples'?

If so... then decide, in your opinion, what the best, most noble wife does, under horrible situations.

Not, "an individual". But "a wife".
"An individual" will walk out at the first sign of trouble, and "go look for something better".
To my mind, "a wife", will act in different ways. That's not to say "a wife" would just put up with everything with no complaint or action. but I think that [a good married person] acts with very different motivations and standards, than an individual looking out for themselves, and their own interests.

Decide what "a good wife" does, for yourself.
Then dont let anyone bring you down, for following that. If you do that, then it doesnt matter what otheres think about it. You will be staying true to what you think is truely important. No way you should lose self-respect for that.

[Trixi]

How are you doing 99? Been away from here for a bit. What's new in your sitch?

Heya Max!
I was wondering how you were doing! (I hope you have updated your thread because once I am done here, I'm going to look to see if you have! (I looked a couple days ago and was surprised at how long it's been since you've been on.))

I wish I could say that I am doing great, but really I am sad, lonely and scared. This too shall pass, I guess.

Dom R,
I found the following regarding ACoA and it fits me to a "T". This is why I don't even really know what "good wife" would do. I don't know what a person with true self-esteem would do.

Well, here's the list:
Here are Janet Woititz's Characteristics, published in her book Adult Children of Alcoholics.
1. Adult children of alcoholics guess at what normal behavior is.
2. Adult children of alcoholics have difficulty following a project through from beginning to end.
3. Adult children of alcoholics lie when it would be just as easy to tell the truth.
4. Adult children of alcoholics judge themselves without mercy.
5. Adult children of alcoholics have difficulty having fun.
6. Adult children of alcoholics take themselves very seriously.
7. Adult children of alcoholics have difficulty with intimate relationships.
8. Adult children of alcoholics overreact to changes over which they have no control.
9. Adult children of alcoholics constantly seek approval and affirmation.
10. Adult children of alcoholics usually feel that they are different from other people.
11. Adult children of alcoholics are super responsible or super irresponsible.
12. Adult children of alcoholics are extremely loyal, even in the face of evidence that the loyalty is undeserved.
13. Adult children of alcoholics are impulsive. They tend to lock themselves into a course of action without giving serious consideration to alternative behaviors or possible consequences. This impulsively leads to confusion, self-loathing and loss of control over their environment. In addition, they spend an excessive amount of energy cleaning up the mess.

Only 3 and 13 don't seem to apply to me- with the exception that I will 'lie' to spare someone's feelings. Otherwise, I am almost honest to a fault.

You are right that I am not ready to say Goodbye to him.

I have researched CoDA and ACoA meetings in my area and plan to attend.

Yeah, I agree that SELF worth should be coming from my self... Looks like my work is cut out for me.

[MaxP]

Hi 99,

Not much to report in my relationship. The last time I saw my W was the time she came round to give me the "it's over" verdict on our separation. So that was that. Lot's of comments about our R now being fundamentally different, which is quite funny really since ever since she left I haven't been all that aware of what she has been up to, who she is seeing or been 'allowed' to make any serious plans to meet up. So not much difference there then. So much for using the time wisely. I feel like I've been conned.

We're now in the realms of slowly unpicking our lives, starting with our finances, which is not much fun. We normally have some form of contact about once a week. I still miss her and I still love her, so it's been very hard at times - surprisingly hard. I still think about what has happened a huge amount. I'm not sure she thinks about me much at all. I also wonder if there is someone else, but our lives are so separate that I would need someone to tell me and that won't be her.

Basically, I'm trying to concentrate on me. I'm trying to work out what things I enjoy and what I want from life. Like many people here I imagine, doing fun things sometimes feels like you are just going through the motions - but things are slowly changing (sometimes it feels quite glacial though). I have a bit of stability back in my life and that is very welcome. I can't wait for 2008.

Sounds like you are having a rough time. I think getting to the saying goodbye stage is very hard and frightening. I would hate to think that I would never have any contact with my W again, in spite of all the pain that this process has inflicted on us both.

Max

[Dom R]

Dom R,
I found the following regarding ACoA and it fits me to a "T". This is why I don't even really know what "good wife" would do. I don't know what a person with true self-esteem would do.

Well, here's the list:
....
Here are Janet Woititz's Characteristics, published in her book Adult Children of Alcoholics.
1. Adult children of alcoholics guess at what normal behavior is.

Trixi,

"what would a good wife do", and "what would a person with true self-esteem do", are two, completely separate questions.

(furthermore, I dont think that the second question, is really important at all! )

From your list of things... I dont see any of them as relevant to the question of, "what would a good wife do?", apart from #1.
which is really just your way of saying "I dont know"

I think that you need to figure out why marriage is important to you, and what it means.
That is to say: Where does your concept of marriage come from?

• From society?
• From your parents?
• From a desire to never be left alone?
• From the bible?
• (somewhere else?)

A wimpy reply, would be, "well, all of those mean something to me".
Dont go there :P

ONE of those things, is the most important to you.

First, I think you need to decide which one it is.
Then, you will be able to figure out what marriage really means, and through that, what a "good wife" should do.

It is impossible to meet more than one concept of marriage FULLY.
When conflicts between concepts of marriage arise, you have to pick which one "wins". The same one needs to win every time, otherwise you have a mess.
Even if you assume that there are multiple ways to have a "good marriage"... if you dont follow any of them properly, then it is a certainty that you will not have a good marriage.

So... pick ONE. then go with it.

[NikB]

Ah ha - there you are! I didn't realize you'd changed your name.

I sent you a couple of emails but they were returned saying your mailbox is full. I won't repeat it all here unless you want me to - but I can re-send them once your mailbox has room.

[Trixi]

Hey Nik- got the emails. Mailbox is now not full.

Well, picked up H late last night at the airport. Romp in the hay last night and this morning. After breakfast I asked what was going on with Christmas and New Years and he told me he was going to New York. Oh. Well, I guess then I don't have to be driven crazy knowing he is here local and not with me.

He said that he had talked briefly with his sis and uncle about our situation. But he didn't have any news. No lightening bolt hit him. His bottom line- I shouldn't count on him for anything. I had him elaborate and he said that we should proceed with me buying an investment house to live in. That I should try to find a foreclosure or maybe a fixer. I said "uh- I can't do all the handywork in a fixer" and he said "oh, well of course I'd be happy to help." (yeah, I don't think so. If I go buy a house, I am going to have to go completely dark.)

At one point I teared up and he said "I don't want to lead you on. I don't know what the hell I am doing. I hate that I keep hurting you." as he wiped a tear from my cheek.
I said "so, you're just leading me on?" Him "No. I just don't know what I am doing." He wants me to move forward with my life (that's what he meant by don't count on him.) And if he comes back then we can make the adjustments.

I told him that I was really concerned financially; that I didn't want to deplete the nest egg and that I didn't think I could totally support myself without dipping into it and he said that he could "help" me. We also agreed that no one is filing anything; that things would be status quo until he could figure out what he wanted. Oh,and I said "You know the downpayment could have been a motorhome or all sorts of cool things" and he said "If we get back together, we are both able bodied--we'll be able to get what we want--and it's not like we'll lose money having real estate." (Obviously he isn't watching the rest of the country.)

He is still considering moving to another state/warmer climate. He hates living in the apartment. He just doesn't know what he wants with his life. Sometimes he wants to be with me and sometimes he doesn't. I said "well, you miss me" and he said "of course, I'll always miss you. I love you."

I said that I still held out hope because we have a really good foundation and he said "yes, we do. But BOTH people have to want to participate." *sigh*

It finished up with me saying "So, you just *have* to do this the hard way huh?" and he said "you mean because you know I'll be back?" and I said "yup. I will try to forgive you for putting me thru this; but you need to know that the spouses that were left and returned to are really MAD because they had to stuff their feelings for so long. Be aware it's HARD work."

Had some chit chat conversation regarding gutters, mail, etc.

He gathered up his stuff, gave me a nice kiss goodbye and left.

Every time I sleep (literally and figuratively) with him, kiss him, say goodbye, eat a meal with him, I always wonder "is THIS the last time I will ever do this with him?"

So, there it is. I guess I need to go and find a house. Merry F'in Christmas and Happy F'in New Year to me. BOOOOOO!