W8ing, I'll be gone for a bit, so have a good thanksgiving.
-------------- The Forlorn Hope:...A picked body of men detached to the front to begin the attack....Fortified, meaning strengthened to stand...and thus, positioned for victory
W8ing, this morning I had an experience with what you've been posting about. My STBXW initiated the subject twice with me, so I finally did speak about it. It didn't seem to have a positive outcome.
Anyway, it's on my new thread, "turning the page."
Have a good Thanksgiving.
-------------- The Forlorn Hope:...A picked body of men detached to the front to begin the attack....Fortified, meaning strengthened to stand...and thus, positioned for victory
I've been reading here for about a week now; I have also been gone from these boards for a number of months in part because of my own uncertainty about some of the DB ideas and because I was at a point where I needed to grow myself. So, maybe I should be careful what I post, although I think the beauty - and part of why I returned - of this board is that it serves as a sounding board for everyone to share their own journeys and experiences. I have found these posts on your thread, w8ing, to be both helpful and challenging to my own thinking.
Quote:
We find ourselves married and Standing. A person can Stand without being a Stander (much like a person can choose not to abort without being Pro-Life). But Standers believe marriage is a covenant 'til death do us part. I'm a Stander, and I so not interpret the scriptures literally. But I personally made a vow that we would be together for our entire lives. I made a vow not to abandon Sweetheart in ANY circumstancse--better/worse, sickness/health. I don't believe in divorce, and thus would not recognize a divorce as valid.
Rollercoaster - when I read this, I find myself unsure what you and others mean by standing. I am "standing" if that means not actively pursuing a divorce, but I'm not "standing" if that means I will not move on if my H makes clear he is not, and will not, be coming back. I agree that these vows I made - and we made - were made with conviction. I posted earlier that our personal vows, in fact, were literally "All that I am and All that I am to become, I give to you." In my heart, that means that this is the "all that I am to become" part, and that this is the challenging time we promise to be there for each other. But at the same time I say that, I am also having to recognize that I am not in control of him, and if he is determined to go, I cannot stop that - although I can resist promoting or supporting that.
MLC and ACOA and other names for what our spouses are experiencing are important, but I know for myself, I have made excuses and protected my H - probably to an unhealthy level - for the whole of our marriage b/c of the label of ACOA - or before knowing that label, the recognition of his toxic childhood. I have not been able to allow him to be what he is - a human complete - without that label, and sometimes I think that the labels prompt us to be more excusing than is healthy. That doesn't mean MLC or other forms of emotional disruptions aren't real - they most certainly are - but my challenge is finding the way to recognize the behavior without bringing in the protective or co-dependent element.
I know that for me that letting go, and yes, distancing - has been more easily achieved when I finally agreed in my heart that this marriage that we had is now over. I don't plan to disconnect - I do and would welcome any interest on my H's part to revive or reconcile - but whatever that new relationship would be would have to be something different than what we had. I know that if we weather this storm, and he comes back or we try again, that we would need a new standing before God and speaking of vows to really be married - even if there has been no legal divorce.
Now, if that's standing, then I guess I am standing; my understanding of the term, though, has equated the action of "standing" as self-negating: ie: that if I stand, that means never finding another relationship again - with my H or without him if that happens. I'm not ready for that - and I don't think it's a healthy example to my sons to essentially sacrifice my future happiness to what would be a dead entity. (But, as I just said, maybe I have misunderstood the term, so then maybe I'm making that assertion unnecessarily.)
I know that there is a huge wealth of experience and insights on this board. I welcome the help and questions that you all have given me. I hope, w8ing, that you don't mind that I have used your thread for such education, and I hope that you have found some help in my questions.
All that said, I hope you all have a great Thanksgiving - one way or another. There are many things to give thanks for, I find even some because my H walked out, and I keep trying to remember those.
I AM STANDING FOR THE HEALING OF MY MARRIAGE!... I will not give up, give in, give out or give over 'til that healing takes place. I made a vow, I said the words, I gave the pledge, I gave a ring, I took a ring, I gave myself, I trusted GOD, and said the words, and meant the words... in sickness and in health, in sorrow and in joy, for better or for worse, for richer or for poorer, in good times and in bad...so I am standing NOW, and will not sit down, let down, slow down, calm down, fall down, look down or be down 'til the breakdown is torn down!
I refuse to put my eyes on outward circumstances, or listen to prophets of doom, or buy into what is trendy, worldly, popular, convenient, easy, quick, thrifty, or advantageous... nor will I settle for a cheap imitation of God's real thing, nor will I seek to lower God's standard, twist God's will, rewrite God's word, violate God's covenant, or accept what God hates, namely divorce! In a world of filth, I will stay pure; surrounded by lies I will speak the truth; where hopelessness abounds, I will hope in God: where revenge is easier, I will bless instead of curse; and where the odds are stacked against me, I will trust in God's faithfulness.
I am a STANDER, and I will not acquiesce, compromise, quarrel or quit. I have made the choice, set my face, entered the race, believed the Word, and trusted God for all the outcome.
I will allow neither the reaction of my spouse, nor the urging of my friends, nor the advice of my loved ones, nor economic hardship, nor the prompting of the devil to make me let up, slow up, blow up, or give up 'til my marriage is healed.
- Author Unknown
Any questions?
Blessings,
David
The fires of true love can never be quenched, because the source of its flame is God Himself! - Shulamith
Yes. I find these words thrilling and inspirational. Do they mean, though, that if that divorce comes, if that marriage is ended despite a person's (or my) standing, that person must still stand alone waiting for resolution? In our country, it only takes one person to complete a divorce legally; does this affirmation mean that one can never move on even if everyone around continues to?
That Stander's Anthem is from the Rejoice Ministries website. They are too literal for my tastes. I like them, but not the religious strictness. I don't think salvation requires a Christian Faith--though I am Christian (proudly Lutheran!).
You can Stand now and stop Standing at your discretion. From your description, I would classify you as a person who is Standing, but you are not a Stander. In the strictest sense, it is a Covenenat Keeper, and remarriage is not acceptable. Once married, always married until death.
I realize you are defining moving on withio the context of waiting around for your spouse to return, never dating etc. In that sense, yes it means never moving on. I define moving on as getting a life and being happy with my Self...while Standing. That is one of the greatest challenges for many out there. They keep Hope so close rather than putting it away in a precious box and letting it live without relying on it. Hope is not something to which you have to cling. It will still be there when you Let Go.
You have a healthy view. You ar doing well. You don't have to do this forever, and it seems you have accepted that your MLCer may not return. It is different for everyone. Would I have so strict had I not known Sweetheart would return? I cannot say since that was not the condition of my situation. I always KNEW he would return.
So I try not to hold others to my strict level. You need to determine what is best for you and where your beliefs are.
The Stander's Anthem (as RCR calls it) is inspirational, as it is meant to be. It's a pep talk. The main point is, if you quit, you're guaranteed your marriage won't be restored. By standing you have a chance. Football coaches are fond of saying,'we want a chance to win in the fourth quarter.' I want a chance to win my marriage back. There are no guarantees. Not every marriage is restored. Some people are in the Bible all day and don't get restoration. I know a woman who claims atheism and her marriage is restoring. Some people are still standing when their spouse marries someone else. I know one woman standing whose spouse has remarried twice! It boils down to making a decision, then implementing the decision. That's why I highlighted that part. Implementing means doing whatever it takes. We are physical and spiritual beings. We use physical means, such as Michele's and Jim Conway's techniques (for lack of a better term) and we supplicate the Divine Essence for guidance and strength. Faith and works, no? I feel that Michele and Jim have done a lot of research and what they say has great merit. I also believe in prayer, and lots of it. So I combine the two. As for whose faith is what, I'm not here to debate, I just read the words in the book. I still haven't seen where Jesus says Methodist, Catholic, Lutheran or any other denomination. He only says to believe in Him, trust Him and love one another. I do my best to do that, within the limits of my own capacity to understand.
Enjoy the pep talk! Hang in there!
David
The fires of true love can never be quenched, because the source of its flame is God Himself! - Shulamith
I define moving on as getting a life and being happy with my Self...while Standing.
I like this very much. Although I hate the phrase 'moving on' (because it's such a cliche), life does not stand still, so we all invariably 'move on.' I think 'move on' in the common day vernacular connotes 'going out and getting another one.' In that regard, I am not moving on. However, when phrased as RCR so eloquently did, I am definitely moving on. It's hard work...
David
The fires of true love can never be quenched, because the source of its flame is God Himself! - Shulamith
