Still Dancin'

[Puddle]

Hey GD,

Wow, that's a really unfortunate turn. Like Sunny, I completely understand your feelings for W right now.

I may be wrong---you certainly know her better than I do---but what I hear from her comments is huge fear. GD, she knows she's in a bad place. She's living with a guy in an R that isn't going anywhere; she's partying all the time; you've got your act together. Now that the D is becoming reality, she's afraid of what's going to happen to her. I totally get that.

You obviously have to protect yourself financially (and legally, re the DL thing). IF, and that's a humongous IF, you wanted to show your W some more impressive GD moves, you could do what Sunny suggested. When you've talked to W before when she was in a state, you were able to listen and validate, and she came around.

Where you stand right now probably makes that really hard, but if you could do the same thing and talk to her about what she's afraid of, I imagine that would be really powerful for her. She might not be able to hear it, but she might. And it might work out the best for everyone, you included. Just a thought.

GD, you've come so very far. I agree that your life is going to be great, regardless of whether you find a partner or not (but seriously, I have no doubt you will, if you want).

I know you don't have a lot of time before the hearing, but use it wisely. This is probably the ultimate moment in your R. Show your stuff.

Take care.

[Gone Dancin']

Sunny,

Although it may seem that you'll have negative feeling regarding your W from here on out, after the court stuff is settled & done my guess is you'll feel differently.

Maybe, but I really have my doubts at this point. She is threatening to get really ugly with things, and with everything that I've done for her up to this point I just can't believe she's doing this. She hasn't learned anything from this experience, and has actually gotten much worse in her choices, attitude, behavior, etc. It's been a year and she's just getting worse. Yesterday, even her good friend was shocked at this new development, and said that she has recently began to realize how selfish and unstable STBX has become.

I just don't want anything to do with her at this point, and the only way I will ever feel differently is if SHE makes changes and shows that they are genuine over a consistent period of time. I now have the WASes mentality regarding a needed change in the spouse. Until she can prove this to me (and I don't think she'll ever have the desire to), she will get nothing more than is absolutely necessary from me.

Just a suggestion FWIW, if you do offer your W child support, that's something that can always be altered later, whereas a divorce settlement cannot.

Great point, sunny -- I'll talk with my atty about it.

It might take the heat out of it if you offer something, & as you said, you were giving her $700 month anyway. Perhaps take it out of that & you can always adjust it later.

She wants some child support ON TOP of the $700 she's already getting. I'm rather irritated with her belief this should be okay with me, especially with everything else I've done. I'm just tired of doing more than what is necessary to help her out (with ZERO expectations that she will want to come back) and having her believe she deserves more. She isn't taking ANY responsibility for her choices and her future, and is expecting me to provide her with that future. I don't agree with this expectation AT ALL.

I can sure understand how you would feel about her right now.

Thanks, sunny -- I really appreciate that.


Puddle,

what I hear from her comments is huge fear. GD, she knows she's in a bad place. She's living with a guy in an R that isn't going anywhere; she's partying all the time; you've got your act together. Now that the D is becoming reality, she's afraid of what's going to happen to her. I totally get that.

I totally agree with this assessment, Puddle -- but that fact that she is willing to threaten me with legal ramifications re my driving situation kind of negates any empathy I have for her regarding her fears. That is just way below the belt, and not a characteristic I've ever seen in my STBX -- EVER.

IF, and that's a humongous IF, you wanted to show your W some more impressive GD moves, you could do what Sunny suggested.

To be honest, I really don't care to show her anymore changes and effort. I just feel done with that. I will definitely continue to be respectful of her and her choices, but I really don't want to bend over backwards or make anymore efforts to help her out. She's on her own now. The only reason I will take sunny's suggestion is to mellow things until the D is final, and then I'll have the child support renegotiated after that. I will not do it for the long term -- just to help me weather the D storm.

When you've talked to W before when she was in a state, you were able to listen and validate, and she came around.

Not sure what situation you're referring to.

Where you stand right now probably makes that really hard, but if you could do the same thing and talk to her about what she's afraid of, I imagine that would be really powerful for her.

During our last talk, I did talk with her about this, and did empathize with her (despite my negative thoughts and feelings going through my head). Honestly, I can tell that she's not thinking "Wow, he really listening to me. He does care about my fears, feelings, etc,". She's just thinking, "This is how I'm feeling -- now do something about it to make it better."

She might not be able to hear it,

99% sure she can't. She's so self-absorbed right now it's shocking.

I know you don't have a lot of time before the hearing, but use it wisely. This is probably the ultimate moment in your R.

Maybe, but I don't think there will EVER be any good reflection from STBX, and therefore there will NEVER be an ultimate moment in the R where I can show my stuff. She will never see it -- she's too focused on getting what she needs/wants at any cost.

Thanks for your help and support, Puddle -- it's very important to me!

GD

[ItsKat]

Wow, GD. I am so sorry for this ugly turn of events. I can understand how disappointing and frustrating it must be.

Getting money on top of the 700 per month does seem pretty ridiculous. You guys have 50/50 custody, right? What is the 700 anyway? Just discretionary? Yeah, I would say she is looking that gift horse in the mouth. Regardless, I agree with Puddle that she is probably acting out of fear and maybe a few other emotions too. I know that what she is doing is pretty cruddy, but do try to remind yourself of where this is probably coming from with her. Hopefully that will remind you not to act from your emotions too.

I also know that is must be frustrating that, after all the changes you have made within yourself, that this is the direction she ends up going. I can see how it might feel that all your work was done for nothing, but, underneath it all, you know that is not true. The new person you have become is such a gift to yourself and anyone else who gets to be a part of your life. It is unfortunate that STBX can't or won't appreciate those changes, but that is her loss, not yours.

Take care! ((((GD))))

[SuperDad]

GD,
Some random thoughts:
1. Could she be looking for a way to extend the D out of fear of the future? In other words, she still has GD "there" until the D is final? Afterwards, she is on her own...Oh yeah, she still has BF to support her, right?!

2. You are in control right now. You can do what you want. As you know, I always suggest the Path with Heart. In this case, it could be either way...give her extra support with the idea that it will help the kids, OR...let the L handle it and give her no more than the law requires in the hope that it will force her to straighten up and start making good decisions. Your call.

3. Sorry you are so done, but it is the most common outcome as far as I can tell. I've been there since July, but still somehow managing to keep the door open the tiniest crack...for now.

Don't sweat the small stuff and Keep Dancin'!

SD

[Not Much Left]

((((GD))))

Bud, you are describing all my emotions over the past few weeks. I can only say there is someone else out there (me) who truly understands what you are feeling. I know there are others, maybe all who go through this feel this way, but I know exactly how you are feeling..

C

[MinnesotaMan]

GD, man...I'm so sorry to hear that things have taken such a turn with your W.

I think others here are right that she's acting out of fear of what's going to happen to her and uncertainty of the future. Why that fear is taking her down such a destructive path, I couldn't say - but don't let it drag you down, too. Hold onto the changes and progress you've made, and be the stronger person!

Best of luck, GD. Take care of yourself, man.

[waw1978]

Hey there GD. Been keeping up with your sitch just haven't had much to offer these days. Sorry to hear that the STBX is turning for the worst.

Like others stated, take care of your kids but I wouldn't offer to do anything else for her unless for some reason its required by the courts. As you have stated in the past you can always give to her in the future as acts of goodwill.

Hope things don't get too nasty. She needs to remember you two share children and keep their best interests in mind. Sorry to hear she is being immature and selfish.

Sounds like my hasbend...totally selfish right now. But oh well. I can only worry about how I conduct myself.

[Puddle]

Hey GD,

How you doing today?

I just don't want anything to do with her at this point, and the only way I will ever feel differently is if SHE makes changes and shows that they are genuine over a consistent period of time. I now have the WASes mentality regarding a needed change in the spouse. Until she can prove this to me (and I don't think she'll ever have the desire to), she will get nothing more than is absolutely necessary from me.

I totally get this, GD. You've made such amazing progress and you're watching W go the other direction (an interesting yin-and-yang, isn't it?). Just want to validate your feelings on this: you're completely entitled to have reached this point, no second-guessing. (Of course you're entitled to any feelings you have, I just mean that I completely understand.)

I'm rather irritated with her belief this should be okay with me, especially with everything else I've done. I'm just tired of doing more than what is necessary to help her out (with ZERO expectations that she will want to come back) and having her believe she deserves more. She isn't taking ANY responsibility for her choices and her future, and is expecting me to provide her with that future. I don't agree with this expectation AT ALL.

I agree, W's expectations are unreasonable. You dealing okay with your feelings about that?

To be honest, I really don't care to show her anymore changes and effort. I just feel done with that.

Gotcha. Makes sense.

When you've talked to W before when she was in a state, you were able to listen and validate, and she came around.

Not sure what situation you're referring to.

I don't remember the exact sitch, and you may have been posting in retrospect, but you mentioned a time when W called you all upset about something and laid into you, and you just kept calm, kept validating, and she eventually calmed down (and possibly opened up, I can't remember). You mentioned what a turnaround that was for you.

Honestly, I can tell that she's not thinking "Wow, he really listening to me. He does care about my fears, feelings, etc,". She's just thinking, "This is how I'm feeling -- now do something about it to make it better." ... She's so self-absorbed right now it's shocking.

Yes, I see this. Then it really is all about you and how you want to deal with her, without expectation that she'll hear, notice, or anything else.

Maybe, but I don't think there will EVER be any good reflection from STBX, and therefore there will NEVER be an ultimate moment in the R where I can show my stuff. She will never see it -- she's too focused on getting what she needs/wants at any cost.

I'm really sorry to hear that it's come to this. I don't necessarily agree with your ever/never; I think there's still a long road ahead. It doesn't matter, though, and considering the changes you've already made for yourself, that belief/expectation won't change your behavior toward STBX.

Rough times, GD. Like others have said, you're a light on this board, a true success story. I know you'll ride the wave.

((((GD)))), take care.

[Just_Me]

GD,

This is late in coming, but I think you giving $700 per month was the dangerous precedence. I hope it doesn't bite you in the butt in court. Thankfully she has no lawyer.

I think most of this is reacting out of fear. She probably is afraid of losing the kids, either their affection or actually having you get them more than 50% (eventually). I think some of this is defensive posturing. Also, she knows the money tree will soon stop producing fruit (aka, you won't be giving her more money) and she's grown accustomed to it (her bf has also...that was really a bad idea. Two of them couldn't support themselves without your help? Please). So, let this slide like everything else. No more money buddy. The mediator told you plainly that C.S. wasn't necessary. Alimony certainly isn't. So quit with the money. I understand your reasons, but the money issue should be a new boundary.

Me

[Just_Me]

p.s. I just read some of the other responses. I disagree with basically what is hush money or money to grease the wheels of divorce. You have absolutely no idea how difficult changing the divorce decree are. It's not as simple as all that. You want to have it read just the way you want the first time around.

You gave her money because of your feelings for her and because you felt guilty, like the kids would suffer if you didn't pony up the money. GD, I understand that, I've done that stuff myself, but once you start trying to get cooperation from your wife by providing money, it doesn't stop. Have you told her that you won't be providing the $700 anymore, much less c.s. on top of that?