an xh, his FF, Thanksgiving, MIL, and one psuedo-R

[Dom R]

Because, his perspective is so skewed, he probably doesn't 100% believe he is being a jerk. I think some part of him suspects, and it's a matter of encouraging that thinking.

seems like saying, "it's ok that you invite your girlfriend over", would be a huge step backwards in that department.

[azhira]

Well, I guess part of it is, I think this may be a round about way of getting him to face up his own feelings. He's so out of touch with his own motivations, I wonder if putting all of this just completely out in the open might freak him out a bit.

That, and I was going to absolutely be my normal self. You know, discussing all our plans together and which place to spend the night and stuff. I'm pretty comfortable in his place, help myself to stuff, etc. Like we normally do around my friend D or anyone else. Wouldn't you feel odd if you were 'dating' someone whose xw was that comfortable?? Guess I was also thinking that I could get her to be the one applying pressure, instead of me.

And, okay, I have to admit, part of me is just plain curious...

Oh. And, for some dumb reason, I just wasn't that mad at him after we talked about it. sigh Clearly, you can see from my stories about our early M, that this is a recurring problem with me. It's like I'm not bothered by the actual interactions, just with the lack of emotional attention/commitment. I know one causes the other, which is why I even make a point of complaining about it. Not sure why.

[Dom R]

so, what you're saying is, you really dont mind him having a mistress... emotional, "fantasy", or otherwise... just so long as he pays you "enough" attention.

[azhira]

I know. I'm confused by my own reaction.

[azhira]

Maybe the bigger question here isn't so much what xh's behavior is...but why don't these things bother me??

I would think it was denial...except that I have always been this way with him. Never cared when he went to strip clubs. Don't care about porn. I remember when we were engaged...I knew he had a crush on this girl at the mall. Didn't bother me. When we used to hang out with people, he would hang on our FF's or things like that. Didn't care.

And I mean honestly, I just wasn't bothered.

Actually, I used to think jealous women were crazy. Either trust your guy, or end the R. A lot of stuff that I see now as healthy boundaries, a few years back, I just thought was controlling. And no, it didn't really come from anything xh said or did...I recall thinking that loooong before we ever dated.

I've gotten more jealous and such the last few years. (Obvious reasons.) But, clearly, there is some stuff that, I would think, should bother me more. So, why doesn't it?

[Dom R]

So.. porn still doesnt bother you, strip clubs still dont bother you, him "hanging on other women" doesnt bother you..?

you said you had done a lot of research about how affairs start, etc.

SO.. you KNOW, mentally, that this is detrimental to your relationship. Yet it still "doesnt bother you"....
odd...


If it "bothered you, but you could be happy", i might have guessed that you just set low standards.


Maybe you got imprinted this way, from early childhood, by some of your most influential relationships around you. parents? aunt/uncle?

Or... you're detached, and you dont actually care to be fully committed both ways... you just want what you want, but you dont care if he wanders off with someone else eventually, 'cause you'll find someone else?

There's a few different high-level possibilities i could think of:

a- you're not really "afraid of losing him". if you lose him, oh well.

b- you dont think you ever will "lose him". (ie: overconfidence)

c- you want to do some of that stuff yourself now, so dont want to hold him to a higher standard than you want to be held to...

d- ... ??


PS: I think there's different types of jealousy.
There's, "He's MINE MINE MINE hands off!"

and there's more of a "worried" jealousy, of "i know where this kind of stuff leads, and I want to protect our relationship."

[azhira]

SO.. you KNOW, mentally, that this is detrimental to your relationship. Yet it still "doesnt bother you"....
odd...

I know! Yes, I was obsessed with reading about affairs after xow. It's how I cope...by understanding the how and why of stuff...

Don't get me wrong. It hurt. I felt like I'd been run over by a train. And I don't ever want to feel that way again...but, it's like, I don't even realize I'm agreeing to/okay with some things until later. It just seems "natural" to react that way at the time. I'm thinking this is part of my problem. I didn't agree to it because of some DB idea, or to get a certain response...just seemed like the thing to say. I'm thinking that, maybe, picking apart why I feel this way will help me change the behavior. (It works in other aspects of my life.)

There are a lot of things that do bother me now that didn't used to. I often cringe where I initially her him say a new female name I don't know. Any female name. I just don't get why I get over it so quickly. I don't want to change my easygoing nature...I like that...just want to see where it's setting me up for problems R-wise.

If it "bothered you, but you could be happy", i might have guessed that you just set low standards.

Yeah, I don't think that's it.

Maybe you got imprinted this way, from early childhood, by some of your most influential relationships around you. parents? aunt/uncle?

This makes more sense. I'd guess my mom...? Will have to think on this, and write more tomorrow...

Or... you're detached, and you dont actually care to be fully committed both ways... you just want what you want, but you dont care if he wanders off with someone else eventually, 'cause you'll find someone else?

Detached is part of it. I'd be more jealous about JD if we weren't D, I know that. I was all kinds of crazy jealous about TJ while we were married.

Nope, it's not that I see myself 'finding someone new'. Just not my personality.

you're not really "afraid of losing him". if you lose him, oh well.

Yes and no. You're right, I'm not really afraid of completely losing him. I know that played a big part early in the R...I felt completely secure. In fact, I thought women hitting on him was funny at the time. (Not so much, now.)

I do know that, the times I have truly believed he was gone, the pain was almost physical.

you want to do some of that stuff yourself now, so dont want to hold him to a higher standard than you want to be held to...

Nah, not really. I have no real desire to date/hook up/whatever. Other than times when I get really PO'd...some 'revenge dating' comes into my mind...but I really don't want to. Sounds...tiring.

PS: I think there's different types of jealousy.
There's, "He's MINE MINE MINE hands off!"
and there's more of a "worried" jealousy, of "i know where this kind of stuff leads, and I want to protect our relationship."

Agreed. Part of how I explained to xh, was I used to feel like, with certain people (say, TJ), it was more that they were in my territory. Not about them being interested in him, per se, but that they had interjected themselves into our M. (Yes, I know, he allowed it, different discussion...) With the D, that aspect of my jealousy basically wore off. It's not 'my territory' anymore.

I do know that part of this, right now, is that I'm fairly heavily detached. I know another part of this is that, right now, is the whole self-defense thing at work...keeps me from feeling too hurt. (When I intentionally break down these two barriers, I do start feeling jealous of JD.)

I'm really more interested in exploring why, in general, these other things, over the history of our R, don't seem to have been a big issue with me.

[DaveJ]

You mentioned you just thought you'd be controlling if you are bothered by some of his behavior. Do you feel like you just don't want to rock the boat? As in you don't want to drive him away in the beginning so you convinced yourself that it's acceptable behavior? I think most women would've wacked him with a frying pan if he was hanging all over his FFs.

[Dom R]

Yes and no. You're right, I'm not really afraid of completely losing him. I know that played a big part early in the R...I felt completely secure. In fact, I thought women hitting on him was funny at the time. (Not so much, now.)

I do know that, the times I have truly believed he was gone, the pain was almost physical.

Hmm.

then maybe, you have similar feelings than before, but for different reasons.
In your current situation, you are "divorced"... yet still somehow "together". So perhaps you feel that, if even divorce doesnt completely separate you... then nothing ever will.

I think that is major .... erm.. denial/blinders on yourself....
Maybe a bit of "self-protection" to help you detach.

'cause as you said.. the times that you REALLy thought you'd lost him... it hurt you very badly.

I hope that your lucky streak with him, continues, so to speak.

[kml]

Sorry, I would tell him I didn't intend to entertain his girlfriend at Thanksgiving, and that if he wanted to spend it with her, I had othetr places the baby and I could go.

Seriously - time for some boundaries here, don't you think? Your H is out of his mind.

I know, I know - you want to go back to being that trusting woman who didn't feel threatened by H's friendships with other women. That was me too - thought I was too good for that jealousy stuff. Now I see that I just helped enable H's eventual affair by not spelling out clear boundaries of what was acceptable in the R.

Now - if you want to do this because you have an evil plan to make JD see how into you the Ex still is - fine. BUT - this could turn out really badly. Like - Ex imagining a threesome badly. Like Ex bending over backwards to deny you and he are anything other than friendly co-parents badly.

Would Ex be calm and cool about YOU showing up with a boyfriend? Heck no! So DON'T settle for less for yourself.

Just tell him - you know, I thought about it, and I'm not comfortable entertaining your girlfriend, so I made other plans for me and the baby. Then DON'T ANSWER YOUR PHONE.

Ellie