Anned - thanks for posting. Your comments made me stop and think...I hadn't thought about the way that I view my spouse as seeing him as he is, not as he was or possibly will be. I hadn't considered that angle before.
While I appreciate what your minister friend said, I have a hard time accepting it. For some stupid reason, I am very ashamed of the way that my marriage is ending....truth be told - I am mortified. And I do think it is wrong the way that it is ending. I got blindsided and never had a chance. That, to me, is just wrong. And while it may be loving to respect my H's wishes and let him go....it appears very selfish to me. Again - it is all about his wishes and what he wants.
You don't know how much I appreciate your thoughts and support tonight.
For some reason, I am having a tough time tonight. No reason and I feel stupid for feeling this way. Others on the board here have such negative encounters with their spouses - and they have good reason to have down days.
I have no interaction. And, at times, it is difficult to deal with that. I am just sad tonight.
Free advice to all.....buy Kleenex stock....I have a feeling sales will be going up this holiday season!
For some reason, I am having a tough time tonight. No reason and I feel stupid for feeling this way. Others on the board here have such negative encounters with their spouses - and they have good reason to have down days.
Sorry you have been down this weekend. This is so hard on all of us no matter what interaction we have or don't have with our spouses. All we know is that we were blind sided and not given the chance to work on our M's...the innocent bystanders of either our spouses crisis or selfishness.
The holidays seem to be bringing everyone on the board down. I went shopping today and it made me sad because everywhere I looked, there were families and I was alone. I know right now I am just much more sensitive to everything.
Let's look forward to see what 2008 has to bring because IMO, it has to be better by far than 2007. We are getting better...it may not seem like it sometimes...but really we are.
I so much understand your feelings of sadness. I have been having a "good" late October/early November - feeling strong and not overly weepy - but I can feel that changing with the temperatures as the days go by. I was so happy that we - my h and I - managed to come up with a satisfactory T-day set up, but the closer we get to it, the more I just feel poopy (sometimes 5 year-olds express things the best!).
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While I appreciate what your minister friend said, I have a hard time accepting it. For some stupid reason, I am very ashamed of the way that my marriage is ending....truth be told - I am mortified. And I do think it is wrong the way that it is ending. I got blindsided and never had a chance.
W8ing -- I know what you mean about how you feel this is ending. I too have a hard time accepting it and I do feel like we promised each other more than this. I try to find little lights of "ok" out there wherever they are. I guess it helps hearing our failure is not being judged harshly from someone in the church. I too was blindsided - his announcement that this was it came with a notice that he had already - without me knowing - moved out some clothes and items and had a lawyer beginning the paperwork! That part of it - that complete cutting off of any control or ability to respond - was like "being run over by a Mack truck and left bleeding on the road" (my C's words!).
But, I know that I've picked myself up from there. I was able to control some things -- I slowed the whole thing down so that even if we do end up not salvaging this marriage - er, relationship (I think the marriage is over), I have gained time for ME to get my feet under me.
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And while it may be loving to respect my H's wishes and let him go....it appears very selfish to me. Again - it is all about his wishes and what he wants.
You are right -- it is his wishes and his selfishness that's winning. I guess the thought of seeing it as loving is that, at least for me, I'm letting go of my control and wishes for once. I think what I'm trying to say is that as angry and frustrated and humiliated and sad as it all makes me feel, that maybe I am growing if I can say "I cannot control this; and if he's determined to end it all, I can at least be stronger and bigger than him." Truth be told, he's already gone and ended things -- he's already taken away any of my control in this situation in terms of how he responds and nothing I can do right now will make him less selfish or less determined -- so I might as well be loving and let him go. (And that isn't really all that convincing is it?...)
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No reason and I feel stupid for feeling this way. Others on the board here have such negative encounters with their spouses - and they have good reason to have down days.
Try to be kind to yourself and not beat yourself up for these feelings. I too have so much less to complain about with how my H is acting. At least he works hard to see the boys daily and to keep in their lives; he has missed almost none of their school events (music, sports, theater, academic awards, etc.), and we even have managed to sit civilly together at these things. I give thanks for that ... he was always huge in the boys' lives and it would really make things hard if he just cut off ... although I agree it's selfish that he doesn't see or understand that his actions still will hurt them. Anyway - like you, I have so many fewer pains to deal with, but that doesn't mean I can't feel sad for what happens. It's both "survivor's guilt" and the pain of grief, it's both the loss of what was to come and the changed vision of what was. All of that is worth our sadness, I think.
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Free advice to all.....buy Kleenex stock....I have a feeling sales will be going up this holiday season!
I love it!!!
I hope today has dawned with new strength. I too was down last night but have found energy today. I think it's going to be melancholy today, though.
A wise friend of mine, though, who is herself a minister, said to me that my H and I fulfilled those vows long ago - that there is no shame or wrong in this ending, especially if the most loving thing to do is to respect my H's wishes and let my H go.
Your Minister is not very wise. She obviously doesn't know Scripture. In Malachi 2:16 God says, "I HATE divorce!" I don't know about you, but I'm not about to do something God hates! Marriage is a covenant, a binding agreement witnessed by God. It is not a contract to be whimsically broken. God takes a dim view of those who take vows cavalierly. He also takes a dim view of the one who causes or enables the divorce. You might want to look up the word 'vow' and references to it in the Bible. I suggest you investigate http://www.rejoiceministries.org or http://www.covenantkeepersinc.com. There are too many in the clergy who condone or advocate divorce when, in fact, they should be helping couples retore the covenant they made with God. You might also try reading Ed Wheat's "How to Save Your Marriage Alone" and Jim Conway's "When a Mate Wants Out." These books are the tip of the iceberg. Find out what the Bible REALLY says about the marriage covenant.
Don't be so ready to throw in the towel. This is not easy. In fact, standing for a marriage is the hardest thing you'll ever do. But divorce is NOT the answer.
God bless you,
David
The fires of true love can never be quenched, because the source of its flame is God Himself! - Shulamith
While I respect your perspective and reading, I understand differently a couple things here. (Note that I am not a literalist when it comes to understanding Christian teachings; I read the Bible as a human creation, so that will set you and I apart from the beginning.) One part is that Malachi is the Old Testament, and though it is a Judeo-Christian religion, my reading of the New Testament and Christ's vision of God is that the New Testament God is not the same vengeful Being as the Old Testament's vision of God.
I had a sister who committed suicide 22 years ago, and although some would argue the Bible doomed her to Hell with that act, no one who knew her could support that -- she died out of response to deep personal pain and no God could damn her for that, I believe. She was only 16, but as my father said at the time, even God Himself cried out in anguish the day she took those pills - a statement that recognizes our flawed but real human quality of self-will. Again, I find my comfort in the vision of a God who mourns and grieves with us and doesn't invoke wrathful vengence upon our human weaknesses -- and in the case of divorce, I would hope God grieves our weakness.
That said, I don't think my minister friend was taking the vows lightly; I fear I have misrepresented her words. I think what she meant was that my husband and I had long ago upheld our vows -- not that the vows were no longer valid. On the other hand, I know that she and others are recognizing the fact that as much as I might not want to nor believe in divorce, I am not in control of that right now. My H can, if he wishes, begin filing papers, and in Iowa at least, after 5 months (with me postponing things as long as possible without just throwing money away), he can have a finalized divorce -- and I have no way of stopping that without legal injunctions and pain to all involved. She is ministering to my pain, not absolving us of our responsibility.
I think the idea is that no one wants divorce -- no one wants that pain nor to undermine vows -- but when one is in the situation that only one member of the couple wants to keep the vows, there is a time to reassess what it is one is holding onto. Standing for one's marriage is all great, but when the time comes that there is no marriage to stand for, where do we find ourselves? I do not think that my current relationship represents a marriage beyond the fact that we both wear our rings and file our taxes together. I won't walk away easily - heck, I haven't yet - but I don't think it's healthy psychologically or spiritually to bankrupt my own growth and the health of my sons just to hang onto something that's gone. Like the grief journey after a death, there is a point where one must live for the living, and know that God will care for us in all of our human brokenness.
These are just my thoughts. I respect your conviction, and I hope you continue to find the support in your understanding. We all are just trying to make it through this world, however that might be.
Peace and love, and thank you for your blessing - A
H came into my office today. We had a pleasant chat, mostly about D13 and some issues with her.
I should have known something was up.
He has been meeting with his attorney and had a settlement offer prepared.
Settlement. It really is a final sounding word. This really is going to happen, isn't it?
I didn't react at all. I don't know what is wrong with me. He basically said that he had a copy in his office and could I stop by sometime today and he would go over it with me. I was beyond pleasant and said sure, but if he just wanted to give me a copy, I was sure that I could figure it out. But he said that he needed to go over a couple of things with me. Later I was in his office on a work related issue and he gave me the packet. He also made a comment to the effect that he had been fair with "George" (his business partner who encountered some financial trouble a couple of years ago) and he would be fair with me. Ummm - I am your wife, not your business partner.
He made a point to tell me that he didn't take his attorney's advice (meaning he thinks he was generous). He said his attorney thinks he is an idiot. And no....I didn't comment on this....wanted to, but showed restraint.
I have not opened the packet.
So this is my marriage. It has come down to money and "things". My H makes an offer so he can escape from me and I either accept it or fight him. And I am supposed to do this with a smile on my face? Act as if this doesn't bother me. Act as if his behavior doesn't impact me, or my children....our children? I don't want to fight over this - I find it very vulgar to reduce our marriage to this.
I don't know about this DBing. Based on my behavior, reactions, etc. it would be a perfectly logical conclusion for him to think that I am okay with all of this. With the exception of the initial bomb discussion, and the disaster on our anniversary...I have acted "as if" nothing has bothered me. I have had a smile on my face and have been pleasant even when he has not been very nice. So what do I have to show for this? A settlement offer. I mean, my H came into my cubicle at the beginning of a workday to tell me this. It apparently never dawned on him that I may get upset over this. Doesn't that tell you that he thinks I am fine with everything? Well of course he would think that. I have been acting "as if" I am.
You know, when my kids are not behaving appropriately, I tell them. And I would venture a guess that if my parents saw me behaving inappropriately, they would say something....even now that I am grown. But I don't think that anyone is telling him that what he is doing is wrong. I have never told him that he is behaving like an *ss. I have never told him how much pain he is putting me through. I have never told him about the pain that he has put his children through. I have never told him what I think about any of this. So how would he know?
But he doesn't care, does he?
This is going to sound silly but about Thursday of last week, I started feeling anxious an edgy. I couldn't explain it. I was excusing it to the girls leaving to be with H for the weekend, but I just couldn't shake this feeling that I was having. Even after the girls returned last night, I was still not right. Then I was thinking that maybe it was the holidays coming up. I wonder if I somehow knew....
A friend of H's called today and I picked up the phone. I haven't spoken to him since this mess started. He asked how I was and I gave the answer that I always give - "I'm very well, thank you for asking". He paused and said that he didn't know what else to say. I just laughed and said that it is a very awkward situation and I understood, and then I changed the conversation to a neutral subject.
I am tired of making everyone else feel comfortable around me because of something my H did. This is not my action.
And I am tired of pretending to my H, my friends, my family, to my children.....and even to myself, that I am fine. I'm not.
I do not think that my current relationship represents a marriage beyond the fact that we both wear our rings and file our taxes together.
Yes your marriage is in turmoil, but it is a marriage regardless of what you think it represents because it isn't going your way.
I am not fit to debate anyone on the Bible. I know what I've researched and read over and over again, but claim no authority. What I've suggested is that you research these sites and listen to those far more knowledgeable than I am, people who have restored marriages after enduring circumstances that you can only imagine. People who, after enduring this ordeal, have happiness beyond their dreams because they chose not to be swayed by today's throw-away attitudes toward marriage.
I'm certain your minister is trying to bring you peace. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I'm sure your family and friends are, too. Like mine. I told them to support me or shut up.
God wants your marriage restored. But you must believe it and want it for it to work.
It's a choice only you can make.
Blessings,
David
The fires of true love can never be quenched, because the source of its flame is God Himself! - Shulamith
I feel like he has dropped the bomb all over again.
It is not what he originally proposed to me. Not even close.
I know I need to lawyer up now.
But what do I say to him? I will see him tomorrow at school (if he shows up for conferences) and, if he asks if I have looked at it or what do I think...what do I say? I am certain that laughing in his face is not a wise move....
Well, if I thought that my life had changed in the last 5 months, it is nothing compared to what it will be under this proposal.
But I'm glad that he is sticking to his promise to "always take care of me".
W8ing, I am so sorry about this. I know that this is awful. I also understand your doubts about DBing. I keep seeing each step of the D pass by as we go through it, and it isn't slowing down. You're doing a great job of keeping it together. This is a pretty big drop on the rollercoaster, but the fat lady isn't singing yet. Stay strong.
Your H is a Sh17 for giving you that today. It could have waited until next week just fine.
About the settlement offer, I know your pain. How can someone who once loved us try to hurt us financially? It's like it's someone else. My STBXW tried to sneak 3/4 of our retirement nest egg by me.
This is how I had to do it. You have to separate your thinking about the divorce logistics from how you think about the rest of the divorce/DBing/family issues.
This was really hard for me. At the beginning I almost completely screwed myself because I was still thinking like her husband. In all other respects, I keep thinking that way, but not here.
Here, my sons come first, and that means my ability to provide the best life for them as I see it too.
I come second.
Her intitial offers and ideas opened my eyes to the fact that she is not considering me at all. Probably not even hatefully, more like after the D, he'll disappear. Unless you count the major promotion that she is getting at the end of the year.
I think this is what just happened to you. I'm sorry, I know how bad that hurts and shocks you. It is just like the bomb all over again.
I cannot count on her to be equitable financially, or reasonable about my sons lives.
They come first, I come second, what she wants isn't in the equation. That's how she wanted it, not me. If she ever wants to change that, she knows how.
I want the financial arrangements to be equitable, but beyond that, she doesn't enter in to it.
I'm still trying to DB, at home and in other ways, but when it comes to the logistics, it is plain business. It has to be. You must do this for your daughters.
If he asks if you've seen it, I would council telling him that you've looked at it, but aren't ready to discuss it yet. Tell him that you are getting some numbers / information together on your end.
Yes it's definately time to lawyer up. With a good and fair one.
Also, from this point on, I wouldn't discuss the decree with him without your attorney. It sounds like he's trying to screw you over, and listening to his justifications is pointless stress and anger. A fair attorney will help you decide what you and the girls need, and how to bargain to get there.
Last edited by theforlornhope; 11/19/0710:21 PM.
-------------- The Forlorn Hope:...A picked body of men detached to the front to begin the attack....Fortified, meaning strengthened to stand...and thus, positioned for victory
