H initiated the big R talk in which he basically said that he will not end the A (confirmed that it is PA again) but knows that this 3-person marriage is most unfair to me. I think the guilt of it being a PA again has overwhelmed him plus the fact that I am being the wonderful me . He said that he tries every day to find a reason to end it with ow but is too attached to her. That if there was any hope that we could work it out that he would walk away from ow but there is no hope. He thinks we are great at being friends and having fun together (an important part of what marriage is about, right??!!) but that is it.
D is the answer because he is skeptical that the changes I have made will stick. He does not believe that our M will ever be different than what it was. He kept trying to take ow out of picture. As if our M would not be salvagable and his feelings about "us" would be exactly the same even if there wasn't another person involved. I calmly told him that I disagreed with that and stated that he would see my efforts to change much differently if there wasn't someone else involved.
As we talked through some of my continued boundaries regarding ow contact, I tried to make him understand how painful every call that comes from ow/tm/evidence of the A is to someone in my shoes. I told him that I read in a book (I think it was the Shirley Glass one) that a S having an affair hurts more than someone close to you dying. Then, think about living with it for as long as I have. It's like someone dying over and over and over - that's the magnitude of pain that he and ow are inflicting.
All the while he tried to make ow into a saint, I calmly stated my view of a woman who will not only seduce someone else's husband but will carry on forever with that man. I told him it is just downright mean and wicked and that is how I will always view her. H said he would never purposely throw the A in my face again. I responded that may be true but ow will certainly do that and has done it by calling when she knows we are on a family vaca, giving D gifts, tm at all hours, etc. He naively said that she waited for him when he cut off the PA a while back.. that's how much she loves and cares for him. I said "no kidding". She was married at the time. What was she going to do? Go out and seduce another married man?? H's eyes got kind of big. Kind of like this realization hit at that moment. It was interesting and he changed his tune and said that he was "skeptical" of her as well ... wth??
All in all, I feel horribel but like I was finally heard. H understands some of what I am feeling now. There were tears from both of us but I told him that he is right - D is what we need to do because I do not want to live in a 3-person marriage any longer. So, that's how it ended. But, H kept coming up to me and hugging me, then we sat on the couch and he rubbed my back and played with my hair. Is this normal? It just seems that two people getting D'd should be much more detached from each other.. I really don't get it and I really don't think he understands the magnitude of what he is about to lose.
Woah, he is still sitting on that fence big time. On one hand, it's good that he sees/feels your pain or at least knows that this is not fair to you on the other, his justifications are just sad! He can't work things out with you if he's still with her -- so he blames that on you because he thinks your efforts to change won't stick? That you're great friends, but that's it? The fact that he said he was skeptical of her as well just proves that. At least you got to talk and be heard.
The affection after the talk means he is still attached to you, too, I think. I don't think I would have been able to let my H touch me after that. I would be going down the LRT, or 'going dark' road at that point ... and asking him to move out. I also agree that he doesn't understand the magnitude of what he is about to lose!
I agree with ourcrisis, he is probably going to change his mind a few more times. And while he does that, what will you be doing?
Take some time to forget him today! GAL and be with the kids. Take care of yourself.
I know what you mean about finally being heard on some levels. That's good. I think ourcrisis is right, he will probably waffle a bit more. I like Joie's question, what will you do while he is waffling? Are you tired of it? Can you stand it some more? Do you want this marriage back? I am glad your boundaries were discussed as well. Amazing they can't realize (without us telling them) how hurtful this can be for us.
I bet you OW is pushing him to divorce you all the time.
More hugs for you. I feel for you, as with many others here I am sure. I have some thoughts with your post but I need to gather my thoughts better. Your H sounds similar to my H, so don't lose hope. One thing I pick up is that your H said 3-person R won't work. I remember at the beginning, my H once said of course every man wants a wife and a girlfriend. Only later he said this (3-person R) cannot go on forever because we are all hurt. So now it is you OR ow, not both.
I will post more later. For now, please take care of yourself. No R talk. Go do something else. I know my H needs some time to digust my speech so may be your H also needs some time (and you also) to process the talk. TAKE CARE!!!
First off, good job on your part with the boundaries and stating what you need in a strong way. You stated your piece from a position of power rather than weakness.
As far as the "touching" stuff goes, I will give you a guys perspective. IMHO, I think he genuinely feels bad for you and feels bad for the pain he is causing. He is trying to comfort you. This is how a guy reacts when someone they care about is hurting.
Again, IMHO, he needs to see what life will be like without Olive. He needs to see what he will be missing without you there. More importantly, you need to know that with or without him, you WILL be Lovely, Vivacious, Sought After Olive.
Being under the same roof makes this difficult, but you need to do it, for yourself. Since I stepped back 10 days ago and as much as possible quit worrying about her, I have slept better and felt better.
I am praying for you.
Me: 44 S: 17 and 7 Final-6-13-08 I once went to a psychic who told me I would soon feel cheated......
Wow... so much of the same blindness... Switch the genders and you could be describing my W's attitude about her A. My spouse too will not acknowledge the role that her illicit R has had on the continuing dissolution of our M. No, maybe the A is not the cause of our M breaking, but it sure as h*ll is the chief reason why W has no interest in repairing it.
A couple of things are in your favor though, LO. First, at the very least, your H both recognizes and acknowledges the pain that a 3-way relationship is causing you. Second, he is reacting to your pain not by ignoring or denying it but by instinctively attempting to assuage it, by what means, feeble or not, he has at his disposal.
Joie - What will I do? Begin preparing my house, my finances, my mind, my heart for the end. The R talk really wasn't confrontational. There was mostly just sadness expressed by both of us. The other strange part of our conversation was H asking about what was missing for me in our M. It was kind of weird timing but I just went with it..
lwb - I don't think ow is so obvious that she is pushing for him to D; but, she is pushing for him to spend more time with her.
MC - yes, I believe you are right. He was trying to comfort me because he does love and care about me (like a sister ) Funny thing about the boundaries.. ow called while we were having this convo... I rest my case.
NoCode - I guess you are right in that he is acknowleding the pain that he has caused me and does not want to cause it any longer. At least he doesn't hate my guts anymore.
Thanks for the prayer guys.
Speaking of prayers. The sermon at church today was so timely it must have been sent from the heavens. Probably won't do anything to change H's mind but it started out with a story of a woman so depressed because her H moved in with his girlfriend. For 18 months they were separated and when the D was almost final, her H told her he wanted back in the M. The question for her was what should she do. Anyway, the rest of the sermon revolved around how you make important decisions by being mindful of God, being prayerful, etc. Bam! 2x4 to the H's head. I wonder if he felt it..
LO, hang in there. It will be OK no matter what (but you probably already know that you are an amazingly strong woman)
OK, I am not as good as giving comfort than to analyze stuff. So I will just try to analyze your H's saying from your post.
Good: - He knows that a 3-person M is no good. In the long term, when/if he comes back to you, you will know that he will (eventually, though it may take a few more roller coaster ride) be back with you without OW - he is starting to see how this A makes you feel. It won't sink in yet, but it will sink in pieces later (when the fog lifts) - He hugs you and such. This may be good and bad becuase like MC said, it's a guy thing. Plus, you two have been married for so long he cannot forget that, right?
Bad: - It seems that he is still attached to her. This is part of the roller coaster ride. It's not over yet. My H tried to end it a few times (he did not tell me before, I only find out bits and pieces from talking to him later) but he ended up moving out for a few weeks in March before he finally came back. And while I don't think he will go back to OW (cross my fingers), he is still in contact with OW. From MLC board, I know breaking it off takes a LONG TIME. I sense that right now your H is still not there yet (of fully commmitted to you) - OW is a saint. Well, my girlfriend, my H still thinks my OW is a very good person. I no longer even bring up the fact that she hurts everybody by doing this because I don't win, period. In H's mind, OW is the victim and how can us wives be SO CRUEL in saying bad things? But if you listen carefully, sooner or later there will be little complains about her and that's the time you know the fog is starting to lift. I don't have a nutcase OW so it is even harder for me. Good job in pointing out that OW was married and seducing another man. - I also agree with MC and you that he probably does not realize what he is missing yet. He needs to leave to realize that he is losing his family, M, YOU. Looking back, I almost wished that my H moved out longer so he fully understand how important I am to him. At this point, I think he knows, but I don't think he has spent enough time with OW to realize that she has the same "problems" as everyone does. All he saw was the "good" during that few weeks.
What to do now? take care of yourself. I am guessing you are feeling also if you want to pursue a D, or hang on. May I suggest that you leave that for now and think it over a few times. Bad as it may sound, I think if he wants a D, he needs to move out because that's what D is about. Hopefully (and hopefully it is quick before you move on), he will realize what he will be missing and come back. If not, well, that will be the outcome anyway, separated.
Again, HUGS to you. Do take care, LO.
(P.S. on a funnier note, I smiled about the story in your church. Right before my H left out of town recently, we went to Chinese and he opened up his fortune cookie. At the back, it is "learn some Chinese". His phrase was "already married". We both laughed over that one. I said "make sure you remember that one.")
. He said that he tries every day to find a reason to end it with ow but is too attached to her. That if there was any hope that we could work it out that he would walk away from ow but there is no hope. He thinks we are great at being friends and having fun together (an important part of what marriage is about, right??!!) but that is it.
) Funny thing about the boundaries.. ow called while we were having this convo... I rest my case.