I've been overweight my entire life, and if that describes you, you know how that can overshadow absolutely everything. Anyway, I was a virgin at age ~23 when I started to go out with my wife. I was just stunned that she wanted to be with me, I think that was probably 50% of the reason why I fell in love with her in the first place. I am intelligent, knowledgeable with a good vocabulary and sense of humor.
Some background on her:
She was raped as a young teenager, and spent several years after being very promiscuous, and dating mostly jerks. I guess she finally decided she wanted to settle down and be with a nice guy, so she picked me.
The story on us:
In the beginning, there was sex, and it was good. Literally within months, things started to go sour. She started spurning my advances, and stopped initiating. What used to be several times a week turned into several times a month very quickly. Emotionally, I was too immature to speak up about it, I just kind of kept my unhappiness to myself. Meanwhile, as I am a very romantic kind of guy, I would send her flowers for no reason, big extravaganzas at birthdays, I even flew to meet her at an airport where she was connecting on a flight home.
It wasn't long before the sex dwindled to monthly, if I was lucky. I was upset because I couldn't reconcile the fact that she seemed to love sex with jerks, but the one nice guy who treats her like a queen gets nothing. We moved pretty far away, and things started to get even worse. Months would go by with nothing. When I asked her about it, she said that she was just too stressed about things (money, job, color of the sky, whatever) to be in the mood. I quickly learned to stop asking, who needs that kind of constant rejection?
Then she decided we should have kids. Yay! Our sex life exploded - to once a month. She got pregnant very quickly, and the instant that happened, that was it for the monthly effort. After he was born, you can guess what happened to our sex life. Maybe twice a year. For a few years. Then she starts asking about having a second kid. This would really piss me off, because although I wanted another kid as well, there were 2 problems. 1) Unless your first name is Mary and your husband is Joseph, it just can't be done with no sex 2) I knew that having another kid would be the final nail in the coffin of our almost dead sex life. I asked her how she planned to do this on no sex, and she said that we would just have to find a way to do it more. As if the reason for our no sex was scheduling conflicts or something. I also took this to be a big slap in the face; she won't have sex when I need it, but when she needs it she'll find a way. Finally I caved and we returned to marathon sex - once a month. This was an even bigger slap in the face - you're trying to have a kid, but the most you can stomach to be with me is once a month? And it was always initiated by her, with the huge turn-on phrase: "let's make a baby". After he was born, (again very quickly) and the sex again died all together, I finally lost it. There was a bunch of incidents that happened, too many to list, and I wrote her a letter. I said how upset I was, how I had fantasized about leaving or having an affair, but if my own wife wouldn't sleep with me, who the hell else would? I went out and bought SSM, read it in one sitting, and I couldn't believe how accurate it was. It was comforting to know that I wasn't alone. I gave her the book, about a year ago, and so far she has read exactly 24 pages. On the plus side, as a result of the letter I did get some "duty" sex, about 2x a month at best. Never any real fun, just me doing all the work and no real passion from her.
I should also explain another side of me, I am very romantic. I love to spoil my wife, random phone calls during the day to say hi, flowers for no reason, big productions at birthdays, etc. She seemed to really appreciate this at the beginning, but as time went on and our sex life died, I would cling to these things, with the hopes that "if I just get her all these presents and really show how I feel, she'll respond". Nope. Never. Our sex life just got worse and worse, I never got any sex on gift giving occasions. I should also say that not once has my wife ever done anything like this for me. Never a birthday party, hardly ever buying presents; although I do seem to recall a birthday BJ, once.
If you put those elements together (no desire to be with me sexually plus not wanting to do anything for me on gift-giving occasions), you can see why I feel that my wife just has no passion for me. And really hasn't for a long time. She says she loves me, and I suppose she does, but really this is just a business arrangement for the purpose of raising children and running a household.
Here's where we are now:
I have recently lost ~130 pounds. I am in the best shape ever, and skinnier than my wife has ever known me. We now have our "duty" sex about once a month, usually initiated by her with the very hot come-on "wanna fool around?". I do all the work and it really is no different that masturbating at this point, just a lot more work. I'm actually starting to dread it, because it is a poor substitute for what I really want. I don't want to have passionless sex because my wife feels she has to. I have come to accept that my wife simply can not and never will give me what I need, and that this is what I'm stuck with.
As for the gift-giving and romantic gestures? I'm so over that now. I'm tired of pursuing her to no avail, and especially tired of not seeing any effort on her part.
I should also mention that I get almost physically ill when I read about HD women. The thought that I could be with a woman like that really is too much to bear. Having said that, there is a part of me that knows I must have done something (and continue to do something) that killed the sex drive in my wife. I must be so repulsive, I'm sure I would have the same effect on any woman.
I have really enjoyed coming to these boards. I get a lot of comfort in knowing that I'm not alone, and reading the wisdom of others in the same situation. I finally had to register and speak up when an HD guy was wondering about his LD fiancee who didn't think there was a problem. I had to stop him from making the same mistake(s) I did. The thread can be found under the SSM board, called "sex-starved fiancee".
Thanks for letting me vent and I can't wait to hear what people have to say.
Thanks for the bio. So many elements are familiar to me and will be to many of the other posters. (Board can be slow on the weekend.) I'm sure you've discovered this as you've read around on this forum.
I'm also familiar with the "if I make myself more attractive,* do all these wonderful things, buy presents, be very nice, s/he will HAVE to want me. [sigh]
How old are you? (Sorry if you've already said and I missed it.) I'm guessing late 30's? You've got a LOT of life ahead of you. I'm sure you've been giving some thought to that...
Blue said: "I must be so repulsive, I'm sure I would have the same effect on any woman."
It's VERY important to banish this thought from your mind. If your W is your first and only, it's easy to go here, but don't. Fortunately (or not), I have had other relationships before the current one, one with a dynamite lover who adored my body, and with a very loving husband who also adored me. Thank God for them, or I would be inclined to think I'm a complete loser. IT'S NOT YOU. IT'S NOT YOU.
Your W clearly has some issues with sex and vulnerability-- completely understandable given her history. Has she ever sought help for the rape? Does she have any idea that she is still suffering from that wound? Have either of you ever had any sort of counseling or therapy?
______________ *Not to minimize this huge weight loss! How did you do it?
1) What types of male behavior/attributes do you think tend to make women "willing" to have sex?
2) What types of male behavior/attributes do you think tend to make women "aroused" or "desiring" to have sex?
3) What male behavior/attributes do you wish made women "willing" or "aroused/desirous"?
4) If your answers to 1 and 2 are different than your answers to 3, why do you think your "wishes" are different than your view of reality or in other words in what ways do you think your tendencies towards being a romantic are interfering with your real world functioning?
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I have to say, it's kind of weird for me to be finally communicating with all the regulars. I've been hanging around here for so long, that it feels like I'm talking to celebrities or something!
Anyway, yeah, that's what's sort of comforting to me, the familiarity between everyone's stories. I know weekends are slow, and that's ok. To be honest, I really have given up on us at this point. I'm so done trying to change the marriage. It feels like I've been on a hamster wheel for years, and I'm tired of running. So if I get no advice, that's cool, I'm not really looking for any.
I am 34, and she is 41. We have been together for about 12 years, living together for 10, married for 7.
I know I've got a lot of life ahead of me, and I have given lots of thought to that, and it just makes me want to cry.
It's hard not to feel repulsive when you've only been with one woman, who for the longest time hasn't wanted anything to do with you physically. You are very lucky to have had other lovers. I'm jealous!
She has not sought help for the rape. Given the rape and past promiscuity plus her lack of desire, she clearly has some baggage. She prefers to pretend she doesn't, and continue living her life this way. We have never had any kind of counselling. Given that I have given up on us having a real relationship, I'm not interested in therapy. What's the point, at this point?
As for the weight loss, I got very sick, spent a week in bed with a severe stomach bug. I lost a lot of weight from that and the weeks that followed because of decreased appetite. I looked at that as a gift, and once my appetite returned, I turned to a controlled carbohydrate diet and exercise. I still have about 60 pounds to go.
She has not sought help for the rape. Given the rape and past promiscuity plus her lack of desire, she clearly has some baggage. She prefers to pretend she doesn't, and continue living her life this way. We have never had any kind of counselling. Given that I have given up on us having a real relationship, I'm not interested in therapy. What's the point, at this point?
Here's one of my past posts on why I think therapy (with the RIGHT therapist, and this may not be the first one you visit) can help anyone.
Originally Posted By: Lil
Some people look at counseling as a medical model: "I'm sick and I need to get treated/cured by someone who has been to school and has answers that I don't."
I don't subscribe to this.
Others look at counseling as an education/teaching model: "The therapist teaches me things I don't know, the way I know stuff when I leave a math class that I didn't know when I walked in."
This is a little better, but still not on the mark IMHO.
I prefer the coach model: "I know where I want to be, but I need someone's help to see what I'm doing that's keeping me from where I want to be."
To me the coach model is SO much more useful and representative of what therapy is. It puts you on a par with the professional whom you hire to help you hone some skills. Golfers take lessons from a pro all their lives, so do other athletes, dancers, and musicians.
No one thinks there's anything wrong with a professional dancer who attends a class every week of her life. They just assume she is practicing, getting help polishing her skills, getting feedback from an outsider. There's no stigma attached to being coached.
Not that there's NO medical element or no educational element, but mostly it's a question of helping you do something you do know how to do but just can't seem to do on a regular basis.
People sometimes think, "Well, this situation sucks, so how can a therapist make it better?"
The reason therapy/counseling/talking/posting here helps is because your pain isn't coming specifically from your circumstances, it's coming from your FEELINGS. Nothing wrong with that. Counseling helps you with your feelings. It does not change your circumstances, but it can change your feelings, and this in turn may enable you to ACT in ways that will change your circumstances.
Carl Rogers, the great psychologist, said that in therapy, "a person talks to himself through the medium of another mind."
If you feel really stuck and defeated right now, I suggest you give it a try. A therapist is not going to talk you into anything, or judge you, or make you feel bad. This is a person who will be totally on your side, someone you can tell anything to, but has no stake or investment in what you ultimately DO. Like a loving but disinterested parent. The therapist won't convince you to stay in the marriage and make the best of it. S/he also won't convince you to bail. S/he won't convince you of anything-- just help you sort yourself out.
Your W needs some help re the rape, but if she can't see it yet... there's not much you can do. Dragging someone to therapy against their will rarely works.
Bluejay, I do not often stop by this forum, but happened to read your story today. Great job on the weight loss!!! You must feel so awesome about yourself for that accomplishment! Keep up the good work.
I can tell you that I was abused as a child. I have lived my life thinking I was a survivor. I thought if I could just survive long enough to get out on my own, I never had to mention anything that happened to anyone and I did not have to acknowledge it myself. BOY WAS I WRONG!!!!
I am now in my 40s, married almost 19 years with two soon to be teenage boys and come to find out my whole entire being (mind, body and soul) was being ruled by what happened to me and how I grew up. Talk about a rude awakening!
I decided to go see a counselor in June of 2006. I went because of the problems in my marriage. I did not really think it would help, but I did not know what else to do. I continued to go for a year not really even knowing why I continued to go. At some point and without knowing exactly when it happened it did start helping. Now I go twice per week. My C said she would rather see a patient every day for 6 months than once a year for 5 years.
Anyway I am writing this long drawn out post to tell you that your wife needs to address what happened to her. She probably doesn't think she does, but she does.
I believe you would benefit from some counseling also. Having been overweight and feeling like you did not deserve better treatment than you were getting are good reasons to go.
I hope you will see someone and I hope your wife will someday too.
Me 54 DS19 and DS17 Married 06/1989 Divorced 01/2011
Bluejay, I guess my first thought is that your W is taking advantage of you and seems to have absolutely no respect for you either.
I would think maybe Corri may suggest that No More Mr. Nice Guy book. Maybe b/c of the weight & self esteem issues all your life, it would help you to gain the respect you need for yourself and thus "stand up" to your W about your needs, etc.
I know in my M I may have gotten to the point of not respecting my H too much after awhile. I have always had a pretty strong personality and need/needed someone who can at least "seem" stronger than me and so if I felt I was then put in the driver's seat in most of the aspects of our life, I somewhat lost respect for him.
My H had to finally say and truly want a D before I woke up and made any changes. I sincerely didn't understand the extent to which he was unhappy, etc. I didn't understand the whole rejection thing. Especially w/ her abuse background and then the promiscuity, it may go hand in hand in the fact that I feel that a lot of women grow up thinking men "just want sex & that's it." I didn't realize that men actually do put so much more w/ it as far as the emotions/feeing intimate, etc.
Anyway, I'm obviously not saying for you to D your W, but it may take some pretty big extremes before she finds any reason to change her ways.
Last edited by RedHeadWife; 11/17/0709:37 PM.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
I have no idea how to answer 1 & 2. You're talking to a guy who has only ever been with his wife, a woman who is rarely willing to have sex, and never aroused or desiring to have sex. I've just realized that I have no idea how to make a woman horny. I feel like such a douchebag... As a teenager, I never dated. I was very unpopular because of my weight. I was a decent kid though, and the adult women in my life told me to hang on, that eventually the girls would tire of going out with jerks who treated them badly and would love a guy like me who would treat them like a queen. It's taken me 20 years to realize it, but that was some s*itty advice.
As for 3, it'd be nice if being a kind, generous, attentive, caring, loving and affectionate man did the trick, but it hasn't gotten me very far.
4 is a bit easier to handle. I'm starting to think that what women really want hasn't changed since I was in high school. They want to be treated like crap. The biggest a$$hole is the one with the most chicks lined up waiting to spread their legs. Nice guys finish last, I really am starting to see that now. Women lie to themselves and us, about wanting decent men, wanting to be treated properly, you know, "waiting for a man to sweep me off my feet and treat my like a queen", but it's all a sack of crap, isn't it? Maybe nothing gets a woman hotter than being treated like s*it.
Who knows? And what difference does it make? I will never get the chance to figure it out with another woman, and I have totally given up on the woman I'm with. So who cares. You know what? To hell with all women.
Man, I'm angry and bitter. Maybe I should go yell at my wife, it'll make me feel better and maybe it'll get her turned on, and when she asks for sex, I'll tell her to f*ck off and blow me. That should really get her hot!
Your questions have really put me in a bad mood. That's good though, there's no progress without pain.
Thanks for the advice. Like a lot of the men on here, I often feel taken advantage of, and that my wife has no respect for me, at least no respect for my needs.
I think I will order the NMMNG book. As you can see in my reply above to MJontheMend, I am a very nice guy, and it's getting me nowhere. Somewhere along the line, I think she stopped seeing me as a lover and more of a friend.
I'm so tired of getting my wife to change her ways, I've given up on us. I'm fed up. I don't care anymore. Whatever. I'm done. Even as little as a year ago, I may have given threatening a D a chance, but now, to hell with it. And even if I did, I know how it would go: have sex once or twice to shut me up, and then back to square one. But I would feel even worse than ever.
Anyway, I'm in a really foul mood tonight, and I'm angry that my wife has all this power over me, and I just wish I could walk away.
Thanks for the kind words, but I have to admit, these days I don't feel awesome about much.
I understand what you are saying about the counselling. I don't want to go to marital counselling. I've been hurting for so long in this stupid marriage, I'm just tired of it. I don't want to try anything anymore. I just want out. The thought of doing anything that could translate to pursuing her, makes my stomach hurt. I'm done.
As for individual counselling, yeah, it would probably do me a world of good until I walked in my front door and was faced with this marriage. I think I'm really in a bad place where I can't see a light at the end of the tunnel, so I don't want to bother with anything that might make the light appear, because I believe there is no light. Does that makes sense?
I just want to be loved, and I'm tired of working so hard to make her love me. I don't want to do any more work at it.
I'm very happy that things are working out for you, though.
