Still trying to win WAW back (#2)

[theforlornhope]

Bro, don't take it too hard. We've heard all of the same alien spew. It's almost word for word.

The revisionist history is hard to take. That started with my STBXW a long time ago, and because I didn't recognize it, (or frequent this board,) I would just get angry and argue the point.

Useless, don't do it.

You seem to be controlling your frustrations pretty well.

Don't let her reel you into an argument. If she starts an R discussion and it starts to go south, end it, walk away, go home. "I'm sorry but I don't want to argue with you."

Will that make her mad? Yes.

Will what you might say if you get angry be even worse? Almost certainly.


Good luck this weekend.

[DaveJ]

So....here's something I've been pondering. Should I ask her not to do any texting or phone calls to her "friend(s)" during the Retro weekend? I can just see it, her texting in our hotel room when we should be working on us..... Or is that going to come across as being controlling?

[LostInMN]

I wouldn't necessarily call it controlling as much as asking her to actually give the weekend a chance to work. If she wants to be calling/texting OM at that time, she might as well stay home as far as I'm concerned.

My own opinion, of course, your mileage may vary.

[DaveJ]

Well, I'm not sure if it's even OM. She's never even met the guy. She claims that he's just a friend (she found on craigslist). She claims there are no romantic interest from him. She claims she has no romantic interest for him at the moment. Although I somehow suspect if he shows some interest toward her she would jump all over that. I deducted that from when previously I asked about if she has any romantic interest with any of the people she talks to and she said no very quickly. But when I asked after she had contact with this guy, there was some pause and a few I don't knows, and not right nows. She did comment on he's good looking and supposedly a nice guy. Of course she has also stated she's no longer physically or mentally attracted to me (but is emotionally, whatever that means. Any woman want to enlighten me on that?). I don't get how you can stop being physically attracted to someone. Either you think somebody looks attractive to you or not whether you like them or not.... One time she was texting while driving when the kids and I are riding as passengers. I asked her not to do that and that was ignored. Is it that important to text this guy that she can't do that after we arrive to our destination? And then the cell phone fell under the seat, and she spent the entire time fishing for it while driving when we were 5 minutes away from the house. I just don't get it....

Oh yeah, she asked me if it's ok to invite this guy over for Thanksgiving last night. I said if you have any romantic interest in this guy I really do not feel comfortable with that. If no then I don't care. So she says, fine, are we having thanksgiving meal as lunch or dinner? She said she'll just invite him over when I'm not there. WTF? Now I'm only allowed to be at the house part of the day on Thanksgiving and not allowed to be with my kids because her possible potential romantic interest has no place to be during Thanksgiving? Of course she puts that as she doesn't like to see anyone alone on Thanksgiving. Well, obviously he was just fine before meeting her....

Ok....me done venting....

[theforlornhope]

Ok Dave, I started and deleted a post last night, and one this morning. I did that because I came across as way too angry at your W, and that doesn't help you. (Except in a support sense, and in that sense, I am incensed! (play on words ))

Anyway, I cannot believe the nerve of your W to even suggest it.

I don't want to ramble about with this, bear with me buddy.

Your instincts are telling you that she is sniffing around him and he is sniffing around her. Judging from the totality of the circumstances in this case, YOU ARE RIGHT ON THE MONEY.

She sought out a MAN on Craigslist. For companionship. Calls and texts. It's gotten secretive. She dropped the IDLYA bomb.

If she's not in an emotional affair now, she's seeking one. If not him, someone down the road, but she's checking him out for it now.

I'm sorry if I come across rough, I don't want to, but this is not an old school friend, co-worker, army buddy, etc. This is the OM, or soon to be OM! I'm sorry again, but I wish someone had shaken me awake when it could have mattered in my sit.

This part is my opinion only, but for what it's worth,

An emotional affair is the same thing as an physical affair.

As far as sexual affairs go, an EA/continued PA is far worse than a drunken one night stand (PA)on a business trip.

This is because a short physical fling shows a lack of respect/love for the spouse. Bad, but not nuclear.

An emotional affair is a complete divorce of (pun INTENDED,) ones rightful love and commitment to the family, (not just the spouse, but the kids as well,) to whom it rightfully belongs.

I said "belongs," and I know that makes me sound controlling, but when there are children involved, IT BELONGS! You can't say "I love him now, not you," and divorce without also saying to your children "I don't love you enough."

Even without children, we swore an oath. Our allegiance, love, and commitment belong to that other person now. I have sworn 3 oaths to uphold and defend our constitution. I am still under them. My commitment in that respect belongs to this nation. Period. What would I be if I broke them?

There are paranoid/controlling/abusive people out there who continually accuse a normal spouse of a non-existent affair.

YOU"RE NOT ONE OF THEM. Just from the brief glimpse into your sit. afforded by your thread, that is obvious. Primarily because I have gone through the exact same things and know the roadsigns by heart.

I'm sorry to speak so strongly, (you should have seen the posts I deleted.)

I council "absolutely not" my friend.

If she has to see him on the holiday, I suggest you spending half of the day with her and the kids at your house, and then she goes to his place and spends the rest with him while you watch your children at the house.

She is expecting TOO MUCH. I haven't drawn any lines in the sand in my sit. yet, but I would draw this one.

I am so sorry you are going through this.

Your friend, TFH.

[DaveJ]

thanks tfh. With the way she's texting you'd think there's an EA if he had any interest. Of course in her head we are done so it's none of my business, even though we are not D yet. It doesn't matter. As I have already decided, I will worry about me getting better and improving. If she sees that and wants that then great, if not, it's her loss. I am worthwhile. If that's what she wants to pursue by all means. Hopefully she'll learn her lesson. But that man is not coming anywhere near my kids if I can help it. If it's a regular friend, I've no problem with them meeting the kids. If it's a romantic interest, I will not have my kids go through any of the emotional trauma while she attempts to figure out whether she wants to be with this person or not. No way no how!

It also helps that MIL likes me. She really does not care for W's xBF. So probably won't be too happy about anyone new either consider I'm the father of her grandkids.

[azhira]

I am worthwhile.

Exactly.

[theforlornhope]

Darn straight you are.

[azhira]

Let us know how Retro goes.

[DaveJ]

Ok, back from Retro. Talk about an exhausting experience. They certainly keep you occupied from early till late. Overall very positive experience but no life changing miracles from the W. I do feel there is now more hope and things are turning towards a positive direction. Retro can be a life changing experience for many people. I do see people that are bickering and fighting until Sunday and all of a sudden do an 180 just based on a song they are playing or something the presenters are saying. It is pretty amazing. I highly recommend anyone to drag their S there even if they feel hopeless. It is well worth it. After all, you got nothing to lose. They do it in such a way that is very emotional, touching, and inspiring.

So my experience.... Friday afternoon driving up to north phoenix to drop off the kids with some friends that are kind enough to watch our kids while we attend Retro. Funny thing is that part of the way we got into an argument and she started going into the anger mode once again. Says she really has no interest in going and doesn't know why we need to spend that much money for this and it's a waste of time etc etc etc. At least we managed to stop the fighting. Dropped the kids off and went to dinner near by before heading to Retro in Phoenix downtown. Surprisingly we had a great time at dinner. Laughing and joking. Very pleasant interaction that has not happened in a LONG LONG time. Maybe God's already at work here. We get there about 7pm and checked in. Initial reaction for W that night was that she realizes we aren't the only people having issues. There are all sorts of people of all ages, cultural backgrounds and etc there.

On Saturday and Sunday W began to open up more and sharing feelings. More pleasant interactions. W starts to see some hope in us getting along. W acknowledges that she needs to let go of her anger. She even identified the reason why she won't forgive and let go (I'm so tired I can't remember exactly what it was she said...uck!). She also feels that if she forgives me I will expect her to get back together with me and work on the R. I told her that I don't really have any expectations and I will go at the pace she's comfortable with.

So she feels we should continue to dialogue in order to improve communication. She's even contemplating going to the post sessions. Right now logistics is the major hurdle. We need to find a trustworthy sitter. First post session is Tuesday so that may be out of the question. I'm really hoping that she will want to go to the post sessions. She is working on letting go of anger but it may be a process. I feel that it will be a long process and that I will need lots of patience. But I do feel a lot of hope for us and hopefully things continue in the positive direction through dialoguing. The weekend also showed both of us that we can interact well, be able to laugh, joke around, be silly, and have a pleasant time. I think that will help getting W to stop holding me at arm length and slowly wanting to spend more time with me.

Ah well, I'm so brain dead I need to get some sleep. I will post more if I remember more. All I know is that W's perspective has changed drastically over the weekend. Really, drag your S there if you can. It can make a difference no matter how they think before.