Plank removed from eye, too late for WAW? 8

[Heimlich]

Not bad. Bit of a backslide, but don't think all bad.

Had a quick email exchange with W this a.m. about logistics with the girls for the next few days. Offered her a final invite to hang out for Thanksgiving. She replied, 'Final answer. No.' Realizing that I sounded a little pushy, was going to leave a VM for her on her phone. out of the ordinary, she actually picked up.

Me: Wanted you to know that I just realized that it sounded kindof pushy about Thanksgiving, like I was trying to find out your plans, but . .

W: That's what it sounded like to me.

Me: Let me finish, I'm just concerned about you being alone on the holiday and that your company would be welcomed by both me and the girls.

W; It did sound like you were trying to pry and it makes me angry/bothers me/something to that effect.

Me: I know, I apologize. I know you're seeing him, so that's fine. I just didn't want you to be alone and it bothers me that you automaically assume the worse intention whenever I ask/offer something to you.

W: I have my life. You have yours.

Me: That's right, if it were anyone else, it would hurt, but it wouldn't bother me that much. I'm on the edge of moving on and that scares me.

W: What bothers you so much

Me: That the symptom of our marital problems might have a hand in parenting my children. I may be wrong, but I see him as an emotional leach, who couldn't sustain his own marriage, then glommed onto two women who were unhappy in their own marriages. The thought of a person like that involved in my childrens' lives disgusts me.

W: I disagree.

Me: Why can't you ever just say yes or no that you're with him? As you say, it's your life.

W: I don't want to talk about this right now. It's none of your business.

Me: have you ever thought about us getting back together?

W: Not really.

couple of quick kid things then 'bye' by both of us.

That call really went off track quickly, eh?

She called back a few minutes later. Which I found odd.

W: I didn't wnat to end our conversation that way. I don't like being mean or hurting you, but I have my life and you have yours.

Me: I agree and I'm living my life the way I want to. I asked because I still care about you.

W/Me: both talking at the same time, I asked if she would just listen. She said yes.

Since you hit me on the back of the head with a rolled up program 17 years ago, not a day, until recently, has gone by when I didn't love you or think about how my decisions would affect you. I still love and care for you, but I find myself for the first time on the edge of not caring/loving (can't remember the exact wording) you and that scares me. It scares me because it's new and because I still believe that we could have a better R than before. I've done a lot of thinking over the last few months and realized a lot about myself. You weren't the only one that gave up on our M. In many ways, I had too. The fact that you stayed with me for as long as you did when I was unhappy is a testament to how much you did love me. And I wasn't happy. And you didn't deserve to be married to that person. I understand now that when you left in April that we could not have been happy. That i couldn't give you what you need. When we tried a year ago, I didn't know what I was doing and you've admitted to not trying 100%. I firmly believe that we could be soulmates, or, as I prefer to put it, have a lifelong love affair. In many ways, it would be easier to start over with someone new. We've hurt each other alot over the years, and I'm just beginning to understand that. When I look at you, I see a person I love and want to be with. I don't think about anything else. While it didn't seem like it, I was over the A back in Dec/Jan. I could listen to love songs again and drive by hotels without my stomache curling into a knot. Today, I think it took a lot of courage for you to leave. Your leaving was the kick in the ass I needed to finally realize many unattractive things about myself. We could find out that I can't give you what you need and/or that you can't give me what I need in a relationship. It just seems that a lot of our problems had to do with talking to each other, lack of communication. We knew each other for so long that we started to assume what the other was thinking/feeling and just stopped asking and listening to each other. I mean, for years, I didn't really understand what you did (still don't totally, pretty technical for me) and for a H not to know what his W does is criminal and something I'm ashamed off. I also realized that I wasn't happy for a while. I'm working on making myself a better person, and i feel good about where I'm going. However, back in March, I was happy. I was happy because I thought we were going to make it and that being with her made me happy. I realize now that isn't enough and that I still wasn't happy in myself, but that's changed.

W: I don't want to talk about this right now. I can't talk to you, that's why I'm quiet. I try to get something out, but it just gets stuck.

Me: That's fine. Will you ever be able to talk to me about this?

W: One day. Just not now. I'm not ready to talk to you about any of this.

Me: That's fine. Asked her if I talk like my step-dad (repetitive and annoying, stressing the same point over and over).

W: Yes. and it makes me feel stupid.

Me: I just realized this. It's not something I'm proud of. I don't mean or want to make you feel stupid, I want to know what you think.

W: You always say that's just the way you talk.

Me: I didn't understand how aggravating it was until just now.

W: I need to get going.

Me: me too.

If anyone had asked me, oh, 3 hours ago if I would have had these conversations with me W, I would have said "no effing way."

Couple of positives:
1. Monday, and I forgot to type this, she had said something fairly mean and I just asked "do you just not like me?" she said, "No, i like you." This is very different from about 3 months ago when the answer was "I just don't like you very much."
2. She called back to apologize.
3. She listened and expressed a willingness to talk in the future -- that's 100% new.
4. I could be wrong, but I don't feel that she's in the same type of R with OM as she was last summer. Obviously, i could be wrong, but there it is.
5. My W holds things and holds things inside. As I've mentioned a few times, I feel like if I can get her to open up to me that either we'll move closer or I'll get some form of closure (while I have a pretty good understanding of what went wrong, I'd like to hear from her exactly what happened). If I could just get that boil lanced . . .

OK, beyond the "no R conversations" advice -- any thoughts?

BD