NCB - My W too seems to have been kidnapped and replaced by some evil alien. You hear this theme in the DR book and over and over on this forum. I've read and thought about that a lot and it seems probable that the spouses we knew are really still in there, but buried deep by the influence of the MLC and/or A. They are very powerful and destructive forces. The experienced MC experts write that time eventually allows that old core self to re-emerge. By that time though, they have often destroyed their families and all love that the LBS once had for them.
Regarding religion, my W is converting to Catholicism. She talks a lot about ethics, "taking the high road", and how often she goes to mass. Thinking back, she informed me of her desire to convert about a year and a half ago. Turns out the OM, whom she already knew through work even before then, is a devout Catholic. What a coincidence! The upshot here is it doesn't matter what religion the WAS embraces, they will twist it to justify and rationalize whatever they have to do to get what they want so badly.
These WAS also will lose all empathy for their LBS's and just about everyone else except their OP. They will say such incredibly cruel, callous and hurtful things, like your W saying that with you out of her life she is so much more at peace. Mine told me that with her OM she is now getting love and feeling so much lighter (now that she no longer has to live with me).
My W also was very judgmental before about people who had A's or got divorced (she even bought a little decorative rock for our backyard which was inscribed "Our marriage is forever." It seems to have gone missing). Now she rationalizes it like yours saying children are resilient and will not be harmed by D "as long as they are surrounded by love."
The conclusion is that the WAS's feelings of euphoria from the A and/or fear from the MLC drive all their thinking. They will therefore rewrite history and rearrange reality to support their feelings and reinforce their illusions.
There are no good answers here, except to take care of your kids and work hard at GAL.
LL
M 63 W 40 M 4/91 S14/D9 bomb 7/6/07 D filed 8/3/07 final 2/4/08 thread
I saw my IC again yesterday. On the subject of the holidays he said what I already know -- don't let W get away with trying to claim all of the important days coming up.
On the subject of my W and her nephew's (W's sister's son's) wedding, he (my IC) also strongly suggests that when W announces her plans to go take our S's to Mississippi that weekend for this event that I tell her I will go as well. I should not agree to W taking our S's on a weekend (my agreed-upon normal time to be with them) unless I get to go as well; I don't necessarily have to be invited to the wedding either, but to be there to visit with my family and take care of my S's. That way I can ensure that my S's get to see their grandmother (my mom).
I am giving this some serious thought and am inclined to do just that. On the other hand, I also know that this will likely be seen by my W as an act of war.
On another note, I have to share this with all of you.
Early this morning, I was reading from my daily devotional, Billy Graham's Hope, and today's entry was on the demise of the family in modern life. This was so very poignant given our situations. This passage asks us to consider that the reason for the break up of so many families, and for nearly all the ills we see, is that we place "self ahead of sacrifice".
That struck me so profoundly, that I nearly got up right at that second to get down on my knees to pray -- and then I caught the words following that... and they were asking me to do that very thing, to get down on my knees and pray to God and seek his forgiveness and to find the love needed to restore our family.
I proceeded directly to my knees at that point and was in tears. I know without a doubt that He was speaking directly to me through my readings. I prayed for a long time (and was late getting ready for work.)
But that is not all. As I was finishing my prayers, a thought struck me right out of the blue. My W is so insistent on a separation agreement (SA), because she has no trust in me (among so many other things.) But the thought that hit me was that maybe W needs (we need) not a Separation Agreement, but a Reconciliation Agreement.
Again, I was dumbfounded that this epiphany occurred so suddenly. I have to believe that God is trying to tell me something.
Now part of me realizes that with my W still selfishly involved in some form of A (PA or EA) with the OM, she is far, far away from having any interest in even a "level 1" reconciliation, and so all she wants right now is the separation and ultimately the divorce. She is not ready for this now, and she may never be.
But I am beginning to think that, given her MLC and her resulting A and the pursuit of the separation and the SA, W is seeking some guarantees out of life, for her peace and happiness -- for which there are never any guarantees. She says she cannot work on our relationship because she cannot/will not trust me -- so may be we could put my commitment into writing, spelling out what efforts and communications she and I will undertake to rebuild our family and to work on our relationship.
I know for myself and how I currently view written agreements with my W, given how she treats our marriage license and our vows before God, her signature is not worth the paper its written on. So for me, I would be entering this on an act of faith that God will hold her to her word. I don't need a piece of paper, but if that's what W needs, then so be it.
I am pondering this for now, and wondering what others here might think.
NCB, You are right, she is an alien, as many of our spouses are.
Here are my thoughts. I think what you counselor suggested about the wedding trip is excellent. I would not have thought of something like that on my own. Not only is it fair, it also lets her know that they are not "just" her children. If she chooses to continue this, there will be lots of compromise as far as the children go. She will not be able to just get up and go and do with children as she pleases. There will be several factors to consider such as whose weekend it is, etc. She needs to see this is not going to be a walk in the park. I think all of this can be done without hostility on your side. I know that is your goal to limit the hostility. We get so worried about their feelings that sometimes we overlook our own needs, actually let's change that sometimes to many times!
As far as the credit card problem goes, since you are an accountant I think you are in excellent position to divide the payments up fairly. I would explain it all in writing and give copy to her.
Take care and just keep praying. God will not let us down.
Life's challenges are not supposed to paralyze you, they're supposed to help you discover who you are. -- Bernice Johnson Reagon
Thanks so much, Yoyo, for not only seconding what the IC advised, but to offer your own insight as well.
And, yes, lwb, Yoyo is indeed brilliant... and so are you.
I find I am less and less worried about all these eggshells, so I have already put my time into our departmental calendar at work to take that weekend as a four-day time off. I am going to see my IL's and my mother whether W likes it our not.
I will be curious to see just when W decides to finally let me know she's going -- she'll cr*p her pants when I tell her I have already prepared to go as well!
she'll cr*p her pants when I tell her I have already prepared to go as well!
I love it!!!!
You know, I accept all invitations to H's family stuff and plan on doing so until THEY tell me otherwise. I will never make it difficult on them or uncomfortable. I would prefer they 'side' with H if we are over, does that make sense? But, I love them and they love me, so at this time, H can make HIS choice whether to go, I am going. lol
Can't wait to hear about her reaction!!
PS: I find I am less worried about eggshells these days as well. Aaaah, freedom...
Hi, lwb, maybe we're just getting to the point where we've dealt with their cr*p so much we begin to just not care so much about being nice anymore. They don't seem to respect us either way.
<journaling> After being on the waiting list since July, I finally went to an appointment with UNC's program for research and aid for people with Autism Spectrum Disorders, including Asperger's Syndrome (AS). If you've followed my sitch, you know that my S6 was diagnosed a couple of years ago with AS, and that has been one of the sources of friction between my W and I.
Well, today's opening intake interview was to focus on me, to see if I need to be diagnosed with having AS or some related disorder. My W has been insistant that S6's condition is no accident, and given her characterization for how I have treated her in our marriage she feels that "there must be something wrong" with me. I cannot rule out the possibility of me having AS -- I do seem to have a few of the more stereotypical traits that characterize people with AS, shyness, tendencies to introversion, etc. Even so, I would attribute the problems in our M to more important factors. But as I have theorized elsewhere in these threads, I know deep down the real reason W wants to have me diagnosed is to be able to throw off blame from herself on two levels -- (1) our son's condition and (2) the failings in our marriage.
For my part, I have agreed to have myself checked out for my son's sake. If I do have some form of this disorder, then obviously I would have the best perspective in helping him get through this. (Like G.I. Joe says, knowing is half the battle.)
In today's inteview, I talked for a long time this morning with one of the psychologists. I guess for about an hour and a half, seemed a lot longer. She asked me many questions about myself, my recent history that led me to them, and about my childhood. We focused on how well I interacted with other people over my lifetime, the duration of friendships, how my M is unraveling, etc. We talked about my experience with grade school, high school, college, dating and how I have been able to get along with people in my work. We talked about my W, my 2 S's and how I view my family. We also talked about how I got along with my parents, and how I only recently reconciled with my own father.
We covered quite a bit of ground, and at a few points she allowed me to ask a few questions in response. I asked her several questions about AS, especially how marriages to a partner with AS tend to be short-lived, if they ever marry at all -- I asked primarily out of concern for S6's future. I told her that I am concerned for how S6 is going to be able to proceed in life with this "handicap" and that I want to be better informed to be able to help guide him better as his father.
Towards the end, the psychologist let me know that she did not feel that I exhibited any signficant traits that would lead them to further testing me for AS. She explained that in my various modes of communicating with her in this session, both verbally and nonverbally, I showed only typical/"normal" traits. And certainly the history I conveyed to her and the focus I placed on events in my life were not characteristic of people with AS. At most she thought that the shyness and social difficulties in my past were more due to social apprehension rather than any physiological disability.
In summary, based on her assessment, she did not feel it would be necessary for further testing of myself, but that we would instead place the focus on S6, who is slated to come in to see them in January. She offered that, if instead I felt like I needed to be futher tested, I could call them back to arrange for further tests be performed (likely involving getting in depth input from my mother to try to see if they can find any such traits from my youth) but otherwise she was satisified that it wasn't necessary.
Bottom line: I don't exhibit tendencies strong enough to warrant a diagnosis of Aspergers.
I drove away feeling a bit torn. Part of me would have welcomed a positive diagnosis, even if it meant W would feel justified in ditching our M. I think the commonality with my S6 would have been a benefit to our relationship -- and right now I realize that I love my S's a whole lot more than I love my W. At this point I value my fatherhood far more than my M.
The other part of me is just angry and hurt. While feeling a little relieved. And feeling a little "I told you so!" towards my W. She is putting us all through this emotional h*ll. So selfish. Part of me wants to gloat, and part of me wants to cry.
Will I tell W? What will I tell her? Whatever I say to her, it won't mean much to her either way. She is just looking for an excuse, any excuse.
