More complicated than I imagined...

[Michael Mc C]

I can see that as a possibility. She usually knows everything that's going on and suddenly feels removed.

It's 2:30 on Sunday afternoon now and she hasn't called at all. The fact that I am aware of this makes me feel that I'm being needy but I think, in all honesty, that if things were good with us, she would have called this morning to say hi and to let me know what the plan was for the rest of the day - i.e., do I include her in dinner plans or not, do I need to get the kids' stuff together for school (kids usually do that themselves), etc.

I guess she's either testing me to see if I'm going to call first or it simply hasn't crossed her mind, for whatever reason.
====
The boy and I had a pretty good time last night. He wanted to sleep in my room last night but I wasn't ready to go in when he was. So we put in a couple of movies and sat on the couch watching, and eating cheese balls.

This morning, in fact, he said "I guess I can't have cheese balls for breakfast..." I said "Why not, we're MEN, we eat whatever we WANT for breakfast" - in a fake, macho voice, so he picked up on the joking.

So we had cheese balls for breakfast, followed by some oatmeal.

Ahh, male bonding. We'll have to do this more often.

[LL44]

LOL!!! Glad you tucked in the oatmeal somewhere too.

Who knows why she hasn't called. I wish I knew. Don't feel needy because you are wondering. Its normal. We can't just shut off our feelings.

[Michael Mc C]

She finally did call when they were on their way home. I was out food shopping so I missed that call. About 30 minutes later, she called because they had gotten lost.

If she didn't have my daughters with her...

Anyway, we had 3 more phone calls (she was following someone else who, left to her own devices, would have had them in Canada by morning!!)

When they got home I made a point of telling the D's how much their brother and I missed them. I didn't exclude the W in that, I just didn't make as much of a big deal about HER homecoming as I did the D's.

We had dinner and talked about their trip. She had a really good time. She gave up some gossip (small town living is wonderful). Who is sleeping with whom, etc...

She mentioned that there are 2 couples in town getting a divorce. She remembered the first couples name but couldn't remember the second:

She: I can't remember who else...
Me : Was it the McCarthy's? <that's us!!!>
She: <with a grin and giggle> Noooo

All in all a pretty good night. She kept talking, which was nice, but I decided to get up and take care of a few other things (politely excusing myself of course).

Still not sure what to think. I sometimes feel like I'm hiding here, giving her space. I go to my office or bedroom and do what I would normally do - read, watch TV, journal on DB.com... It's just that in the past I would do these things in the same room with her. Unfortunately, that shared space is something that I think has her thinking I'm needy, like I'm looking for her to entertain me and keep me occupied.

That's it for now, good night everyone!

[Michael Mc C]

Man this is tiring. 2 steps forward and 1 step back, sometimes 2 steps back.

It's like we're just in this holding pattern. We're getting along great but nothing is changing. I'm sure it's my lack of patience. She still wants D and all I can think is "go ahead, get it started". Not because I want it but because at least it's movement of some kind!

I need to review what I've been doing to see if I need change any of my behavior. I thought things were going really well but have heard from a 3rd party that she has no love for me outside the fact that I am the father of her children and we have been best friends for so long. She has affection but no love.

This is the first time in a long time that I'm feeling beaten down. I think it's because last week ended up being a really good week and I let my expectations build. I'm torn. There was flirting, playing and really good discussions. If I detach now, I'm afraid any gains (if there really were any) will be lost.

Maybe the positive interaction last week was too soon. Or maybe I let myself get pulled back in too easily. She probably saw how easy it was for me to turn around and be there/here for her when SHE needs it.

Going to do some more reading, see if I can bring myself back to where I was before.

So the plan is to detach a bit, work on my PMA again and to keep myself guarded against the 'good' feelings that come out of our interactions. Not that I won't allow myself to enjoy those time, but I can't let those feelings make me forget the purpose here. I need to get her to chase me, not the other way around.

[Michael Mc C]

Good afternoon everyone. This post is directed to Frank_D but I urge everyone else to offer their insights as well.

Frank, while reading your sitch I literally took notes. Looking back at them now I see a bit of a conflict in what I feel I should be doing. To quote some info you received from your C:

"Regarding the new years eve 'disconnect' she thinks that the morning hug I gave W when she was hurting over her feelings for D15 and her dream, caused W to have a conflict - if she doesn't 'need me' then how come she gets emotional support from me and likes it? For that act of kindness she had to push me away."

and

For detachment, you have to really stop caring. don't let the other person get ANY reading on how you are feeling about THEM or what they are doing. Be indifferent and say NO a lot. Like if they ask you to go somewhere or to do something for them, say 'no, I'd rather not'. Don't assist or cooperate in anything they are doing that doesn't affect YOU, YOUR KIDS or anything related to both.

Having read David Cunningham's book, and being a recipient of his newletter, you may have some insight on how to put some of these things into practice without sending conflicting signals. For instance, I honestly believe that W's behavior from Friday through today are directly related to the spanking on Thursday. Friday we were really close and she was truly affectionate. Following that, however, she pulled back - not because of anything I was doing but because she didn't want to feel the way she was, i.e., she patched the crack in her wall.

So we're back to her being in her corner where she will fight tooth and nail to never "go back" and convincing herself that there can never be any hope for us.

My gut reaction is to detach. To stop trying to have fun with her, stop giving her emotional support, stop pretending we're friends/spouses.

Is this normal? Is this a situation where you apply a certain technique, wait for results and then proceed with the next step (detach, wait for her to become curious, add some fun, back off and repeat as necessary...)?

I hate to make it sound so planned but without keeping it in mind, it is way too easy to be blindsided or to get pulled back in.

[Michael Mc C]

Hope no one misses the above post but I have to hijack the current thread for a moment. After work I went straight to the bedroom to continue working on a drywall project. While in there, W started her game but got an error.

So sad!

She asked me a couple of questions about DLL files and was able to find one online. She decided not to download it because she wasn't sure what she was doing.

S8, by the way, clicked on something a few days ago and we now have Malware/Spyware on her machine.

She asked for advice so I recommended searching for Spybot search and Destroy. She found a lot of them and said "I can't do this."

Normally, the old ME would have stopped what I was doing at the outset and gone to help her or guide her, if not do it myself. Instead I carried on with my project.

After finishing up, I washed my knives and saw her on the couch stewing. Being covered in dust, I had to take a shower.

She is now in the kitchen slamming things while making dinner. This is amazing stuff. I have learned FROM HER and from reading that one of my mistakes has been assuming she needs me to step in and handle things. Since some time last week, the part of ME has disappeared.

In the future, if we are still married (happily and nurturingly) I will offer my assistance when she says "I can't do this" or if she appears to be completely flustered. However, I will not do this now.

Damn. She just walked in and asked if I was busy. I told her I was checking emails and "why, what do you need?". Damn damn damn - wish I never said that! Well, she said "I was hoping you could help me with the computer upstairs but if you have to work..." (while she was walking away).

The thing is, I so very much want to say to her that if I help her with this, I will simply be enabling some apparently addictive behavior that has interfered with our marriage...

If we were physically separated, or D'd, she probably assumes she could still get help from me. I guess that might be true.

By making her ask for help instead of me jumping right into it, has it been enough of a baby-step so now I can feel good about helping? Do I simply tell her I'd rather not help, without an explanation? Do I decline and tell her why I don't want to do it?

I've been sitting here for about 10 minutes now, after writing the above. Trying to figure out what I'll do. I think the fact that she has felt lack of my "presence" in her crisis has been enough of a lesson.

I will help her with the computer, without expectation. Giving/loving unconditionally. If it was almost anything else, it wouldn't feel so awkward but there simply can't be conditions - for my own good.

Wish me luck.

[Dr LOve]

MCC,

I HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM, But you did well. You may have went a little too far atthis time but you did good. After I took my shower and I WAS READY I would have asked her if she still needs help.
Not quite sure of your sitch but I have stopped "volunteering" If W askes and I am not busy then I can help. TOOOOO Many times I droped what I was doing and ran to help.
It is good to help. It is right to help but..... You need to do it for the right reasons and on your terms.

This is just my op.

Husband

[Michael Mc C]

Thanks H! It seemed to work out. Just before dinner I hopped on and started the scan. While we ate, she was still visibly upset. One can only wonder why. I wasn't rude, I didn't deny her anything. I imagine it is because she had to ask since I was seemingly unconcerned.

Shortly after dinner, after I had been in my upbeat mood for awhile (drywall always makes me happy - it's the spackle that pisses me off!!), she started lightening up.

So I did it without expectation. Without a pat on the back. Without acknowledgement of the conflict of interest I was facing.

I hope that this episode stirs something up inside of her. Maybe she'll start wondering why my interactions with her have changed instead of thinking I'm just being a jerk.

She should know better, I can be one hell of a jerk!!!

[Dr LOve]

Shortly after dinner, after I had been in my upbeat mood for awhile (drywall always makes me happy - it's the spackle that pisses me off!!),

Now see I disagree with ya here I love to spackle it's the drywall that is all dusty and messy

So I did it without expectation. Without a pat on the back. Without acknowledgement of the conflict of interest I was facing.

Ok you should have stopped here. this is great. I have to learn this also. I have been doing good. but........

I hope that this episode stirs something up inside of her. Maybe she'll start wondering why my interactions with her have changed instead of thinking I'm just being a jerk.

She should know better, I can be one hell of a jerk!!!

Getting respect is NOT being a jerk. That is one thing they bring up in the nmmng book. Just becase you are not a "nice guy" does not mean you are a jerk. ou are a man that respects himself. You can not expect others to respect you if you don't respect yourself.

Ok now here is my problem dealing with this. and it is counter DBing but.... If I respected mysefl then I would demand the respect of NO OM CONTACT UNTIL WE ARE SPLIT UP. Yes I know in DBing they say she needs to be the one to stop but I have always said "if you let something happen and don't say anything about it then you are condoning it.: I have applied this to my life but for some reason let it slip with my sitch.

Good work MCC, I think I may add you to my "safe person" list when I start my 12 step program.
Mark Andyv and paul ave already agreed to help me.

Husband

[Michael Mc C]

If I respected mysefl then I would demand the respect of NO OM CONTACT UNTIL WE ARE SPLIT UP. Yes I know in DBing they say she needs to be the one to stop but I have always said "if you let something happen and don't say anything about it then you are condoning it.

I have those same beliefs here. How can I sit and let the behavior continue without comment or action? By turning a blind eye, am I not simply saying "do what you want, it doesn't affect me"?

Maybe in DB'ing it's a necessary step to turn that blind eye. In hindsight, the time for action/comment was when things went south - not that we were were ever made aware that there was trouble brewing, but I guess there were signs that were missed or ignored.

H - anything I can do to help, you just let me know!