our un-relationship

[azhira]

Oh, I know. I'm not dumb. I'm just not certain how to get past that level of denial with him. I think I was close last night...when he said "Well, if I am in denial..." lol Uh, duh.

xh has admitted to that R high thing before. He was going to SLA meetings. We even talked about it a bit last night... That the attention-getting behaviors were just a way of distracting him from what the pain is really about. It's a lot like self-medicating...only he doesn't do the alcohol or drugs thing.

Per Rollercoaster's advice, I've been digging through some of M Go Blue's old threads. Good read...

[DaveJ]

there is NO WAY that any sane person is going to believe, that he doesnt know that saying "I love you", ..... well, you know.

That's mind boggling isn't it.... I also don't understand the concept of being in love with multiple people...

[azhira]

I think it's different levels of "love". One deeper, one simply an infatuation. The rush feelings, is all. They can mask the more "settled" version of love that you get with marriage.

Everyone is susceptible. We are practically hard-wired to have affairs.

I certainly have felt that pull. Twice, strongly.

I had what was probably an EA shortly before xh took up with xow. In retrospect, it was a friendship I should have never cultivated. I simply didn't know. (Although I learned!)

The other time was just a year or so ago. (And I most certainly did know better!) Two jobs back. I had the worst crush on my boss. He was older...attractive...smart... I knew, if I wasn't careful, it would run away with me. We clicked pretty well. He had a girlfriend; obviously, I was married. I should have told xh sooner, but, instinctively, I hid it. When I left that position, although I spoke with other coworkers from there, I immediately cut off all contact with him. I knew it was the only way. I saw him again a couple of months ago...yikes, I'm still terribly attracted.

Anyway. Guess my point is...it's easier than we all would like to admit. You just have to learn to make the choice, constantly, to work on your current R.

[Dom R]

Everyone is capable of loving more than one person.

The more mature people realize that, if they want a person they love, to exclusively love and share themselves with THEM... that they themselves should be exclusive to that person in return.

Anyway. Guess my point is...it's easier than we all would like to admit. You just have to learn to make the choice, constantly, to work on your current R.

Yup. that is the crucial bottom line, i think.

[DaveJ]

I don't mean loving multiple people as in attracted and infatuated. I mean loving someone heart and soul. Like you accept them as who they are and would do anything for them. Like unconditional love. I just can't fathom doing that for multiple people.

[azhira]

Eh, well, xh is done talking for the time being. I'm getting pretty good at reading the tone in his voice.

JD is 'off-limits' again as a topic. lol Eh, whatever. I'm getting pretty good at recognizing that tone shift in his voice, to know when I need to drop it. So we just had a pleasant chit-chat instead.

[azhira]

Actually, I'm feeling pretty good today.

Did a personal best ever at the gym last night--jogged 1.25 miles. Even at my most fit (and I was fit), I topped out at 1.15. So, yay me! Had an awesome exercise high from it last night, so I am just feeling great.

Things are still a little 'off' between xh and I, but, whatever...I did push, and push hard for a few days. That will resolve itself. I do think I needed to say what I did...at this point, since he is closed, and I am just repeating myself, it doesn't matter. Done for now.

Baby and I wound up sleeping at his place again last night--xh had a paper he was writing he wanted my help proof-reading. I am more than happy to be flexible, where his college classes are concerned. So we went over there, and I brought some wine for us to relax.

So. Last night...

After I am sound asleep, at some point, xh climbs onto my side of the bed. He can't be completely unaware, as this means he is going over/around the baby...it's not just a matter of rolling over and snuggling up.

We wind up in some, um, heavy touching. () At some point, xh goes for more...I tell him (gently) no... He keeps offering. Would I like abc? (Uh, yes!, but not the point.) I politely decline. How about xyz? Again, I decline. It takes me a few minutes to convince him that I'm really not going to let him go further. (I really, really, really wanted to. It's been awhile...)

He finally agrees, then starts apologizing. He says he was having a "sex dream", and didn't totally know what he was doing. (Um, okay. )

This morning, he apologizes again. Says he doesn't want me mad at him for that. (The sex.) Uh...wow...totally missed the point, didn't he? I am not opposed to having sex with my ex-husband, just with someone who is also involved with someone else. (Oh. Just got another apology on the phone from him.)

Aaaanyway.

In other news.

I totally don't know how I didn't identify the alien-speak the other night. (The thinly veiled ILYBNILY nonsense.) I used to be better at it, lol. Guess I was focusing on other aspects of the discussion.

So.

I did a lot of thinking while driving yesterday. (And Snobsdale drivers...yikes...what a weird sense of misplaced entitlement.) After much mulling it over, I came to several conclusions on how I want to proceed....

I think the "really good friends" angle is right. We were getting closer, xh acknowledges this. I also recall, the last time I busted this thing, spending time together was key. It was like, as we did more things together, it jogged his "buried" memories of what was so great about our R. What's tripping me up is the sex; not that he is in a fake-R with JD. I really don't have a problem with her. So, I'm going to keep that boundary of I-only-have-sex-in-monogamous-relationships. That way, I'm not hitting his abandonment fears by pulling back to much, I am still showing him unconditional friendship/love, I'm just refraining from something icky...and protecting my health, as well.

I've also noticed, xh does seem to absorb what I say to him. It may not be right away...or he may latch onto something I've said in anger...but if I don't phrase it about JD or me or him or us...then it's fine. I'll have to pay closer attention to future conversations, and just drop stuff in when the opportunity presents itself.

Oh. I think we're back to playing psuedo-married (minus sex). Which is fine; this approach feels right, deep down. I asked him yesterday about Thanksgiving. He sounded confused--of course we're spending it together, did I have to ask? lol His mom and her bf should still be here, and I invited my friend D over, since she's from the Midwest, too. Should be fun.

Wonder what he would do if I started wearing slightly nicer stuff to bed at night...?

[Dom R]

Congrats on the jogging

Uh...wow...totally missed the point, didn't he? I am not opposed to having sex with my ex-husband, just with someone who is also involved with someone else.

If you havent already... please make sure to tell him explicitly, again, that is what is going on.

Any time he apologizes to you, for something that isnt the real reason for friction between you, I think it's a good idea to explain to him what is really going on. I think that's just a good marriage principle overall, not just in this large issue.

Wonder what he would do if I started wearing slightly nicer stuff to bed at night...?

Definately do it!!!!

Show him "what he's missing"

depending on how well he responds to direct talk... he may ask you, "What are you doing?? i thought you didnt want sex??"

To which you then have a perfect opportunity to say,
"I DO want sex. It's just that I want sex with someone who is [....]"

[DaveJ]

Wonder what he would do if I started wearing slightly nicer stuff to bed at night...?

Wow poor guy.... Ok maybe I don't feel sorry for him. :P He does need to be reminded what he's missing out.

The sex dream thing is uhmm..... does he seriously thought that was believable?

[azhira]

Dave, well, I'm sure he started out having a dream...lol...because that's not an uncommon way for things to get started...but, yeah, it's kind of funny.

Dom, good points on the discussion. I hadn't thought of it that way. It's a problem I have in general...I think I'm being clear, when I'm not. My thoughts kind of jump around, and sometimes I have to slow myself down and intentionally think in a progressive, linear fashion to explain things to people. It used to irritate me because others couldn't "keep up"...lol...I think I just have a different way of thinking now, is all. Anyway, my mom and xh are essentially the only two people who have ever really (mostly) followed my line of thinking. It's a good reminder that I sometimes haven't really fully explained myself.

Oh, and I didn't mean anything super slinky to sleep in. It's been mostly old Ts and sweats since I got preggo. Now that I've lost the weight and trimmed up (and no more need to sleep in a nasty nursing bra), I think I need a trip to VS for something more pleasant. The fabrics on their sleeping pants/shorts are so sleek, and comfortable...maybe throw in a fitted top or two... Did I mention I work out a lot??