RHW men don't always just want sex for sex, their emotions and feeling loved by us come into play too. In my best C.W. McCall voice "That is a big 10-4 Rubber Duckie."
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
For me, sometimes having sex is a place to give from with in me. Sure, I receive something from the experience if it is gift sex, but the event/process is a place to let out/express some of my feelings that hopefully the W will also receive something
In a way, sex fills one cup and allows me to empty another cup. One way sex or having sex when the W doesn't want to or does it reluctantly, only satisfies/exchanges the contents one of the cups.
I suppose non-reluctant/goodwill gift sex has exchanges in two cups, but it still isn't as satisfying as the 4-cup exchange model I had in mind.
When both people want to have sex, in a way, 4 cups have exchanges with in them.
I suppose this explanation is a bit Cemar'ish/mechanical, but that is one way of explaining why sex with an emotional connection and an enthusiastic partner, is so important to some people.
It might also be related to why some men or women get into a “don’t give a crap” mode. The exchange rate/value just isn’t happening at a high enough level to overcome some of the R problems.
RJ I see now that it's emotional distance, and not emotional connection, that gets me more revved up.
Are you saying once you have your H's attention and interest, you lose the HD and head to being more LD? If you can’t get his attention, then you become more HD?
This is what happens to BB and me. I pull away and she gets friendly after about 3 weeks. It sucks! I want it to work the other way.
The more sugar I throw out to BB, the more honey I want her to feeds to me.
So, sometimes you can catch my flies with vinegar.
I call that emotional distancing stuff a self-cure for 'engulfment.' When I was M, this happened to my x and I all the time. It's the pursuer/avoider mode, and it doesn't really have anything to do with the emotional connection stuff I was talking about.
Everyone needs their space, certainly. But once connection is made, or re-established, you have to work really hard on not getting 'clingy' and taking connection too far. I think that is where HD people (because they've been in starvation mode) tend to shoot themselves in the foot... and then the LD person feels 'overwhelmed' or 'engulfed,' and boom, you're off to the races.
Being LD sucks. I can't think of anything that SHOULD be easier than to have and enjoy sex. But God, when you have to actually make yourself get there... that is just so... fcked up.
I mean, even with exercise, it at least becomes a habit that results in measurable, pleasing benefits. With sex, if that other person doesn't get on the same page with you, at least eventually... ewh. Gross. For the HD OR the LD.
RJ, I think you are in a better place than you realize. Drama does increase desire, but drama also kills emotional connection. I think that's where you think that the emotional distance is what turns you on, and keeps you HD. But if you look at self-described HDs, that's really the last thing they want... drama. They are looking for passion. I think a lot of LDs confuse the two, because the two emotions often feel very similar.
So if you feel the pull of 'dull and boring,' and your sex drive is going with it, I'd say you need to find your passion. That is what I was kind of telling IC and GGB... passion feeds happiness. And when you feel happy, you feel rested, and you want to be in the company of others. Sex is enjoyable.
When you are passionless, there never seems to be enough time in the day, people/places/things drain you, and everything feels like a chore. Sounds like depression, doesn't it?
Try it, sweety. And if you seriously think about it for even five minutes, you'd realize just how flippin' hard it actually is... to know what your passion is... and go DO it.
I know you know all this. Sorry if I sound like I'm lecturing.
A few thoughts, maybe nothing new, maybe I've even sort of said this before...
I was struck by something Mojo said a couple of weeks ago. I believe she said that sex for her could be a sort of transcendent experience, and maybe she even used the word spirital. I can't remember exactly. Anyway, it struck me because sex isn't like that for me. It is quite physical and earthly. I don't really feel emotionally connected during sex. I do desire it when I'm feeling emotionally connected to cac, but I think that means that I want to experience that physical release with HIM because of my feelings for him and his feelings for me.
Sex, to me, feels good in a physical way like lots of other things in life feel physically pleasurable. It is on a pedestal above everything else, but I think that has a lot to do with all the messages about sex I received growing up, such as sex being something to "save" for someone you love, and all the "good girl" crap.
I would imagine that someone for whom sex *does* provide that emotional/spiritual connection would be hardpressed to understand that it isn't that way for everyone. I think that when you add this emotional component to the societal messages we've all received about sex, it's a very powerful combination, to which nothing else compares.
If I don't feel emotionally connected or transcendent or spritual during sex, then it's not as much of a big deal if I'm not having it. The only big deal to me was that if we weren't having sex we weren't connecting in any way that felt emotional or spiritual to me (not that I'm even sure what spiritual means) because we were in a catch 22. It was painful for cac to be around me so he closed himself off emotionally, and it was difficult for me to have sex because being shut out was painful for me. (It still is.) I rarely needed a physical release because often times I simply did not feel sexual. It didn't occur to me AT ALL that my H might actually feel emotionally connected during sex, because that isn't at all what I grew up believing and it wasn't my personal experience. So, it's just physical for me, it's just physical for him, why is it such a huge deal?
Now after learning what I've learned, sex is no more an emotionally connecting experience for me than it ever was. cac and I have sort of joked that I'm "like a guy" because I don't *need* to cuddle after sex. I don't know if that's just because my LL isn't PT, or if it's just the way I am, or if it's because sometimes I'm just doing it anyway without feeling emotionally connected first.
The sex BB and I used to have, was good at one time.
For a long time It hasn't been that good so when people speak of emotional/spiritual connection, transcendent, or any of those other descriptive words, I have a difficult time sorting out or categorizing how I feel. I don’t think I can say what sex feels like and say it fits any of those descriptive words.
All I know if feels good when it is right and sort of like artificial sweetener when it isn't good.
(not that I'm even sure what spiritual means) Me either right now.
It was painful for cac to be around me so he closed himself off emotionally, and it was difficult for me to have sex because being shut out was painful for me. (It still is.) That sounds like me and BB. I hope the shut out feelings are becoming shorter for both of you.
I rarely needed a physical release because often times I simply did not feel sexual. I am the opposite. I have a difficult time suppressing my drive sometimes. It helps to have standards, conditions, morals, etc. so I don't act on my feelings and drive.
cac and I have sort of joked that I'm "like a guy" because I don't *need* to cuddle after sex. I watched a program series called, "My Messy Bedroom" http://www.joseyvogels.com/ when I had "Dish Network" service.
The show, (lose interpretation) "sex from a single woman's POV" had some women talk about wanting the guy to leave her alone after sex. A few women wanted the guy to go home with in the hour. So, are you like a guy, or is not wanting to cuddle more common than some people imagine?
The male partners interviewed thought they had to cuddle or they wouldn’t be invited back to the woman’s place. . In some way the woman thought cuddling was what the guy also wanted.
When one woman stated her preference, one guy said, “Do you mean I don’t have to?” They were both happy to hear it was not a requirement.
I like to cuddle. If I don’t do it I feel like I am being selfish.
Corri I call that emotional distancing stuff a self-cure for 'engulfment.' When I was M, this happened to my x and I all the time. It's the pursuer/avoider mode, and it doesn't really have anything to do with the emotional connection stuff I was talking about.
I hear you Corri. I am aware of engulfment and starvation, two evil twins. Starving and table manners being more important than the food.
Everyone needs their space, certainly. But once connection is made, or re-established, you have to work really hard on not getting 'clingy' and taking connection too far. I think that is where HD people (because they've been in starvation mode) tend to shoot themselves in the foot... and then the LD person feels 'overwhelmed' or 'engulfed,' and boom, you're off to the races.
Can't agree more with this. This is probably were I made more mistakes and I really have to work at it to not get too clingy and to give Miss IC her space. It's so easy to fall into that trap when one has been "starving" for so long, and yea, I can see where the LD person can ger that overwhelmed feeling and back away even more.
Being LD sucks. I can't think of anything that SHOULD be easier than to have and enjoy sex. But God, when you have to actually make yourself get there... that is just so... fcked up.
Being HD can sometimes be...as you said...fcked up. It's hard for us to understand how something that SHOULD be so easy to have and enjoy isn't always the case for the LD person.
So if you feel the pull of 'dull and boring,' and your sex drive is going with it, I'd say you need to find your passion. That is what I was kind of telling IC and GGB... passion feeds happiness. And when you feel happy, you feel rested, and you want to be in the company of others. Sex is enjoyable.
Ooooohh this is so key...and yet this is truly more difficult than it sounds. It was so hard for me to separate how I can make myself happy without relying on others. "How can I be happy doing something, when my marriage sucks?" It took everything down with it. It wasn't until I was able to change my thinking and basically will myself to being happy for myself regardless of my relationship. Once I was able to establish this, it began filtering over into our marriage and things began to change.
Try it, sweety. And if you seriously think about it for even five minutes, you'd realize just how flippin' hard it actually is... to know what your passion is... and go DO it.
So... what is your passion?
Good luck RJ, you don't know how many hours of sleep I lost pondering Corri's question a few month back You'll get there, I know you will
You'll get there, I know you will