WAW hasn't walked yet, but emotionally dead

[mako]

Yesterday I had my first counseling session. As noted above, W refused to join me, but that's ok, this is all part of me working on me. If she ever has an interest she can join me if she wants, but alone is fine for now. Anyway, it was good to talk and share my emotions, that's W's main problem so seeing the C will be good for letting me challenge myself to work on that.

W has gone out the past two days for the entire day, so I haven't been able to utilize much DBing. She's looking at apartments, job interviews, and just hanging out at places with free wireless internet. Seems like she just doesn't want to be around me much. I told her last week that she doesn't have to stay out all day on my account, she said she knows so I never brought it up again. I did happen to be leaving to go running just as she came home last night...I've gone running quite a bit lately, she hasn't said anything but this is something she must be noticing as I haven't really exercised much in about 5 years.

We did talk a bit last night. I expressed how good I felt from seeing the C, and talked of her job and apartment searches some. I mentioned how I am ready and kind of excited to move to New York (a move we planned to do together, but now will do separately I guess) and we discussed areas to live, furniture we'd need to get rid of. An interesting point came up that I think she hadn't thought of, NY is ridiculously expensive and my income is much higher than hers, so she's not really sure where she'll live now if she moves. Anyway, all in all not bad interaction, but not great either. But I'm just trying to be friendly, not bringing up R issues, just talking to her even if it's not super exciting. One step is we always say good morning and good night, something we never really did before, even as we are going to separate rooms.

Today I dropped her off at the train station as she left for a job interview (she didn't want a ride but she missed the bus). I texted her later just saying I hoped it went well, she said it did and thanks, I appreciate the text.

I guess I'll make dinner now and maybe go to the bookstore, I need a non-relationship based book to read and get my mind off things a little. As a plus, I'll time it so I'm out when I expect her to get home...

[soul_mate]

You seem to be doing well keep it up. Be patient these things can take a long time. Its good that you are acknowldeging your faults and trying to work on them. Like you I was not affectinate towards my wife read the 5 Love Languages by Chapman it may give you more insight.

[sandi2]

Dear Mako,

I have scanned over your posts and hope I didn't miss something, but you remind me a lot of my H expecially where the lack of conversation is concerned. He also cut himself off from me where his emotions were concerned. I, on the other hand, needed him to talk to me and open up his emotions......despartley! But, he didn't and as the years rocked on, I felt more and more lonely and unfulfilled as a W. So, I think I can identify with your W.

I think you see where you have really taken her for granted and that you can't have a true relationship if you don't share yourself in every way with your spouse. I am proud of you for finding a C to help you learn how to do this. You need to do get better at this before having children b/c they would probably be left with some serious hang-ups having a dad that would not share himself with them.

I hope that things will work out between the two of you. If they don't, keep improving yourself b/c you are young and you will want to have another R with a lady some day and you will be a better H t her. However, maybe it isn't too late for this M. She is starved to death for your affection. Lots of non-sexual affection goes a very long way with most W's. And conversation......do the best you can. She knows you and she can tell that you are trying.....that is all she asks for right now is to try.

If you have been somewhat "lazy" or neglegent about doing spceial things with her, then if she is open to suggestions.....try it out. Depending on where you live, but this time of year here is wonderful for taking long walks or drive through the woods. Anything that would be doing something but maybe not applying too much "romantic" pressure right now, unless of course, you get signals that she would like that from you.

I know what the DR book says about the pursuing, etc., and I agree, but I would like to suggest that you be careful about GAL and not over-do to the point you appear to her to be much happier without her and like you are suddenly coming to "life" after she said she was through. To me, that would hurt to think that was what I always wanted from my H and then he waited until I was "dried up" before he finally decided to start living. I may have misunderstood that part, like I said, I kind of scanned over your thread.

God to go for now. I'll try to check be with you.
\

[LostInMN]

Oh sure, sandi, scare me why don't ya?

I'm doing exactly what you just described; my wife has asked me for years to change my diet, start to exercise, drink less, and all sorts of things that I never did until now that the bomb has been dropped. Of course, all of these things are good for me, make me feel better about myself, will make me a better person long term regardless of what happens with our relationship, etc. Now I'm worried that she'll resent me doing it now instead of in the past when she thought it might make a difference. Oh well, I can't change how she takes it, all I can do is take care of myself and pray for the best results.

[Just_Me]

Now I'm worried that she'll resent me doing it now instead of in the past when she thought it might make a difference. Oh well, I can't change how she takes it, all I can do is take care of myself and pray for the best results.

That's exactly right. You can't control how she chooses to react to your changes, and these are for your own good.

[LostInMN]

I know.

But I love her so much.

I miss getting hugged.
I miss feeling connected to someone spiritually.
I miss sharing anything good with each other.
I miss hearing the smile in her voice.
I miss talking about normal, day to day things.
I miss my wife.

Even though we share the same house still, I haven't seen my wife since one month ago today. I hope she finds her way back home.

[mako]

Thanks for the comments Sandi. It's great to hear the point of view of the other side.

You're right, I am just what you described about your H. I was always prone to cutting off my emotions, and can see how this made my W desperate and lonely for a long time, of course she couldn't deal with that and had to do something. It's so unfortunate that I never saw this until now...finally I see that this can be crucial to loving and fulfilling relationships. So this is the major thing I need to do now to work on me. I'm making a real effort to try opening up, to share my feelings with her and show her affection. I would give anything to just show her every day how much I love her. But I also know that she's been lonely for so long, she's made up her mind now and can't just turn the switch back on, and it will take time, if ever, before she ever can.

But I also realize as you say that I am still young, and even if it doesn't work out with W I will probably have other chances. That is why I am determined now to improve myself. I messed up this time, but I don't plan to make the same mistakes again. Whether my future relationships involve W or not, I will be more prepared to make the emotional connection.

So right now I am just slowly taking steps. W has noticed; she mentioned today how we both seem to have good and bad days, but that lately I have seemed to just have good days. So I just talk to her more about everything (except the R), just to share, and maybe she might eventually start to feel more connected. She is still determined to leave, but if she leaves on good terms and we remain friendly then anything can happen.

I am also trying to be slightly affectionate, but that is hard. Hugging would be too much, but just maybe something as simple as touching her on the arm when we talk would be good...but even that I don't think she's very responsive to right now. And she loves hikes or walks, but she's not so receptive to doing those kinds of things with me either (I offered to go with her to walk the dog the other day but she declined). She still needs time...

I do also fear moving on too quickly, as you alluded to, overdoing the GAL. I don't want her to doubt her decision, but then say "He's moved on, so forget it," or resent it by saying "This was so easy for him, yet he couldn't do it when I was willing to try?" It's a fine line to walk. One thing though is that for our whole marriage I was working full time and going to grad school at night. I had no life at all. Now I've graduated and have much more time to GAL, so that is part of it. She knows this of course, although she still might resent that I am doing all of this GAL now and didn't appear to make the effort to before.

So, right now all I can do is improve myself, keep an open mind to what W is doing, and try to be a friend to her. And just be patient; I know it took her more than two weeks to make this decision, it will take more than two weeks to consider reversing it. But maybe after she has some time to figure herself out, and to see that my changes really might be genuine, she will want to try again.

[sandi2]

This is just a thought, but don't know what more harm it could do. If there happen to be just the right time (b/c timing is evrything!) and you felt she would be in a receptive mood, then you might try to express how this has opened your eyes to how wrong you have been and how badly you would like a chance to prove to her that you want to change.....and that you ARE going to change with or without her...but hope that it would be WITH her. If that it just worked around to where you could get that said in the conversation, it could be part of the the LRT. Then she could see that GAL is all part of the new changes you are making.

[mako]

One problem I have with this approach is that when she dropped the bomb I went straight to the begging and pleading stage (wish I'd known of DB at that point!) and talked about how I was going to change. Later I tried kind of what you suggested, telling her that I need to change for me, not for her...she really didn't believe it, I insisted and she dropped it, but unsure if she really believes or not. So she's heard all this stuff before.

I think I still need to show her for a little while before I tell her again. But she's going to visit family for a week and all the while is looking for an apartment, so time for showing is running out (at least, under the same roof showing, I can still show her when we S but the opportunities are fewer).

You're right though; at some point I have to make her aware that I'm going to change no matter what she ends up doing, but even so I would really prefer to do it with her. Then if she sees me follow through for a while it might start sticking in her head that I can do it. And timing is everything, I'll have to figure out a time she's receptive.

[mako]

Well, W left today to go visit family near NY, she also has a job interview up there. She will be gone till Tuesday.

Before she left, she mentioned again that I had been dealing with things much better this week, as compared to last week which was bad. I told her that seeing the C helped a lot with me just trying to learn to be open and honest with my feelings, and that it HAS been very difficult but I am trying to move on and improve my life. I told her that even though I am moving on I still would prefer to improve my life WITH her, and I know that she is not there right now, but if she ever changes her mind I am still willing to try to work things out, at least for now.

I don't know how receptive she was...she got into a mood of kind of just being restless and doing other things, focusing on packing her things for the weekend. She does that though, when she doesn't feel like dealing she just kind of shuts everything out, I start talking then she jumps into doing things so she doesn't have to listen. I asked her if she was listening and she said she wasn't ignoring me, but she didn't acknowledge my points. I know she heard me, but I don't know if she REALLY heard me, but I didn't press it any further. In the past when I've pointed this out she just kind of gets defensive, so that's not so productive to do right now.

She did say that she knows she needs to see a C too, but as I've mentioned before she will not go with me or to the same one. I hope she does find one soon though, I know she's going through a lot and needs to talk to somebody. I can only hope she doesn't go to someone who thinks that divorce and running from your problems is the answer, but I have no control of who she sees and if I made suggestions I know she wouldn't be open to what I say. Just another thing she's gotta deal with herself.

When she left, she had the odd idea that she would say goodbye by giving me a high five. I gave it to her, but this really caught me off guard and I think I got a weird look on my face cause then she decided to give me a hug. She will call me tomorrow to let me know how her interview went.

Last night was also weird. She saw a postcard we got from my uncle. He's always been very good to us, but we found out recently that he is a drug addict and was in rehab, so he sent us a postcard from there. She said she really wanted to send him a card or letter, then she started crying, saying that she can't because my family must hate her. I tried to console her, rubbed her arm and her back, and she let me do this for maybe 5-10 seconds before she moved away and said she was ok. I made it clear that my family doesn't hate her (they are concerned with my happiness and don't understand why she is doing what she's doing, but they've always liked her and don't hate her for it)...so now she is sending him a card.

I don't really know what any of this means, but as always I can't control what she is thinking or how she chooses to react to things. I can only work on myself. It felt good to be honest with her that I am still willing to try even as I try to improve myself, it is something she needs to know, even if she's barely listening right now. I'll probably go to a friend's house for the weekend, haven't seen him in a while and it should be something fun to do.