When you say no to champagne....

[shinybear]

I second LL here, Sage. And you too. Drop it, don't beat yourself up.

Isn't it great though that you KNOW where your response came from? That you DIDN'T automatically assume it meant something dire about your H's intentions or your M.

Good stuff, Sage, good going with the explanation/apology too.

Shiny

[erinr]

Hey Sage,

Like everyone is telling you, don't beat yourself up over it. I think you did a good job explaining your feelings to him. Unfortunately, since it was over the phone, you didn't get to SEE his reaction. Maybe it would have made his "it's ok" truly ok.

Erin

[sage]

Thanks for the support you guys!

As long as I'm baring my soul here, I just had another insight (in the ladies room of school of all places). We know that I have "an issue" with security -- looking for grounding and certainty when life is uncertain. Seeing suggestions of change and ambivalence as dire threats, etc.

Well...I just realized that part of the problem is that I ASSume that H. is toying with my sense of security. In essence, that his "cavalier" attitude (not really, but my ASSumption) is a thumbing his nose as my desire for security. SO...that I'm feeling angry (more likely hurt or taken advantage of) by him and that that is piled on top of my fears. BUT -- H. isn't toying with me. He isn't jerking me around or being a bad guy. He's talking about normal stuff. What's making me feel that way is that mom and dad WERE adults and should have been caring enough to say to each other: look, we're not sure we're breaking up. Let's put some adult plans in place BEFORE we tell the kids. Let's not jerk them around.

But they didn't. And they didn't do it once. or twice. they did is over and over and over again. So, it's not just that my fears are reaching into the past -- so is the feeling that someone is doing it on purpose. Keeping me without the ground under my feet on purpose. Because shouldn't two grownups KNOW if not the FIRST time, certainly the second time that MAYBE they weren't sure they were splitting up so just shut up!

I don't know if this makes any sense. I've been picturing H. pulling the safety net out from under me on purpose (the on purpose part being the interesting key here). it isn't him that's giving me that feeling....AND, eventually I'll probably recognize that mom and dad were doing the best that they could, too.

Sage

[erinr]

Sage,
I know I've mentioned before that we're in a new construction home.
Well recently, they just finished selling out the neighborhood. My H says, that's good. It'll be a lot easier to sell the house now and we'll get more money for it.
Internally, I FREAKED. I thought "I thought we were through that part of this nightmare!"
The look on my face must have changed because H says "what's wrong' and I reply that i thought we had decided not to sell the house.
He reminds me that he deals with mortgages everyday and that's just how he thinks.
To him, a house is an investment. You get out when you can make the best return.
I think of it as a home and a place of security.
When we sold our townhouse, he never looked back. I wandered through each room to etch it in my memory and remembered good times that we had in each of them.
It's just my way. And it seems like it's yours too.
That's ok, we just have to remember that they are not us. They don't have our emotions or our baggage.

And as a side note, your parents should have known better. They had no right to drag you into it when there was no need.
On the same note, I lived with a mother who totally overlooked my dad's infidelity, not coming home at night, etc. and expected all of us to do the same.
I guess maybe that's why I have such a difficult time confronting my H on issues I don't like.

God I hope I don't screw up my kids!!!

[sage]

OK guys -- mini-rant to follow...proceed at your own risk!

*********
Last night was just a bad night. I spent the afternoon feeling stressed and scared (after the stupid conversation about the house -- or shall I say "non-conversation"?) and also beating myself up for screwing up -- for controlling, for bad DB'ing, for apologizing, for apologizing wrong, whatever. Guess I did a crappy job on the 180 of "letting it go".

Went to school. Vacillated between ok and not ok...Got home and just felt "off". H came down to greet me (good) but gave me only a quick kiss after a few minutes of standing there. I felt suspicious and mistrustful -- no doubt because I had spent much of the night convincing myself that my "slip" (conversation) would drive H. straight into the arms of ow -- who clearly has no personality flaws -- who is uncomplicated -- who doesn't "chew things up into little bits" -- blah, blah, blah.

Clearly a case of a vicious cycle -- my behavior was withdrawn and tentative, I was watchful, he probably felt watched, he didn't sweep me off my feet and give me a giant kiss, on and on. Not his fault at all -- I could feel myself being distant.

We went to bed. Again, a quick and unpassionate kiss. Reminded me too much of how it was in the throes of his A -- his distance, his tacit anger, his lack of physical interest in me, all the crap.

After about 20 minutes I asked him if I could have a hug. He said "sure" and "what's wrong, honey?" I was light in voice when I said "I think I just got a little freaked out by our conversation today". The sentence wasn't even out of my mouth before he sighed and half turned away -- exasperated? Mad? who the heck knows. I said "I'm not trying to make you feel badly -- it's not your fault, I'm just telling you how I feel". No response.

No hug in bed this morning. He's going to be gone most of the weekend so I asked him last night if he wanted to go for lunch today. He asked me about it as I was leaving so we're meeting up.

So, what's the rant? I am tired of feeling like there's something wrong with me for feeling emotions and feeling them deeply. I am tired of feeling as though I'm living with someone who cannot tolerate that part of me. I actually had the thought this morning that D. might not be the wrong idea after all. I want to be able to ask for reassurance and not feel like there's something wrong with me for grieving a part of my childhood. I want to be with someone who wants to be with me.

What is HIS response to stress, sadness, fear, whatever more palatable? Perhaps is H. had been a bit more willing to "chew things up into little bits" he wouldn't have engaged in 8 months of an EA -- of lying to me every day. Perhaps if he had been a bit more "over-analytical" he would have seen that he was in trouble and handled it in a slightly different way - hahahaha. Slightly, my A$$ -- how about not running and hiding in the arms of someone else?

I'm scared to even post this -- there are times when I think my H. is reading my thread and what happens when he sees that I think of D too sometimes? I don't want my marriage to be over -- but I sure don't want it to be like it has been for the last 24 hours. What happened to the guy who leaves me notes like "proceed to the bedroom" and then greets me with champagne? How about a giant hug and kiss? I could sure use one.

I guess a more optimistic viewpoint would be that this kind of circumstance (my fears of not having security, my asking for reassurance, his inability to respond to that in a way that doesn't telegraph is intolerance of "the way I am") is the corner case of our M. issues. We haven't been out much together in the last few weeks. We haven't been intimate in a week. WE haven't been "doing the stuff that works".

Anyway -- lunch is on. Got my best "as if" cap to wear. I'm looking forward to being with him and seeing him. He'll be gone most of the weekend which probably isn't a bad thing -- gives me a chance to regroup.

Sage

[lostlove]

morning sage,

I a fellow analyzer may be able to help...

So, what's the rant? I am tired of feeling like there's something wrong with me for feeling emotions and feeling them deeply. I am tired of feeling as though I'm living with someone who cannot tolerate that part of me. I actually had the thought this morning that D. might not be the wrong idea after all. I want to be able to ask for reassurance and not feel like there's something wrong with me for grieving a part of my childhood. I want to be with someone who wants to be with me.

I at times feel the same way...but as I said to you before...your childhood is YOUR childhood, not h's...sit for a second and think in his shoes..."why can't she just be like me" he had a different childhood than you did...accept it understand it...

he felt no need to analyze the conversation with you because you did it for yourself...you understood where your fears where comming from..and let him know...and you appologized...he said "ok" because it was ok..he understands that you have issues from childhood that still linger...he understands that they are your issues and you are trying to deal with them...for him to sit and analyze them with you would be fruitless...it's your job not his...he didn't have to express any understanding with his it's ok...he could have said "but I'm not your parents. when will you get over it..your not a kid anymore...jeez why do you have to be like this" but he didn't he said...it's ok...then you continued to analyze and were distant and cold..then analyzed his reaction...etc etc etc...

when you need a hug or want a hug...if you gotta ask for one it's ok..yes it would be wonderful if they would read our minds and know that we need one..but they can't.

look I had to ask for a hug when I was upset about h keeping ow as a customer...would it have been better if I didn't have to ask...you betcha...but it still felt good...becuase I was the one who needed the hug not h.

After about 20 minutes I asked him if I could have a hug. He said "sure" and "what's wrong, honey?"

when you appologized and he said "it's ok" for him that was the end of that issue...it had been settled already...thus the "what's wrong, honey?" (he called you honey!!! that's a good thing)

So, what's the rant? I am tired of feeling like there's something wrong with me for feeling emotions and feeling them deeply. I am tired of feeling as though I'm living with someone who cannot tolerate that part of me. I actually had the thought this morning that D. might not be the wrong idea after all. I want to be able to ask for reassurance and not feel like there's something wrong with me for grieving a part of my childhood. I want to be with someone who wants to be with me.

god you sound like me, there is nothing wrong with being the way you are...but you must accept the fact that there is also nothing wrong with h being the way he is. thinking of d at this time is not uncommon...everyone here knows I've done more than think about it. and from the look of things...h does want to be with you!!

WE haven't been "doing the stuff that works".

well then get back to doing more of what works!!

Anyway -- lunch is on. Got my best "as if" cap to wear. I'm looking forward to being with him and seeing him.

relax and have a great time...let yesterday be yesterday and make today a better day!!!

LL

[erinr]

Sage,

It looks like LL says it all. Try and have a good time at lunch. Put that 'as if' cap on firmly! And then take the downtime this weekend to do something for yourself that you don't usually do...get a manicure, facial, buy something new, whatever. Just enjoy being Sage for the weekend!

(((((Sage))))))

Erin

[KAW]

After about 20 minutes I asked him if I could have a hug. He said "sure" and "what's wrong, honey?" I was light in voice when I said "I think I just got a little freaked out by our conversation today". The sentence wasn't even out of my mouth before he sighed and half turned away -- exasperated? Mad? who the heck knows. I said "I'm not trying to make you feel badly -- it's not your fault, I'm just telling you how I feel". No response.

To break the pattern in hopes that he might respond differently the next time he asks, begin with "I'm not looking for any kind of response or for you to change or "fix" anything", but it would be nice if I could use you as a sounding board." and see if his reaction might be different. Don't forget the thank him afterwards for listening.

'til later,
KAW

[sage]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the help and support.

LL -- Your advice was so dead on -- I think that we have a lot in common! Thank you for reminding me (don't stop! keep it up!) that my past and the pain that came from there is my responsibility. Also, that while I'm busy blaming H for not accepting me as I am that I'M not accepting him as he is!

Erin -- Your support is such a relief to me! The story of your mom and what you saw growing up broke my heart.

KAW -- Thanks for helping me clarify a different approach. I'm so stuck talking with H. sometimes. Hearing how I could phrase it differently is a big help to me!

Today just felt like a sad day to me. No calls or emails from H. I gave him the option of not doing lunch because it turned out that we would have time for dinner together after all -- he took me up on it but had pizza and salad waiting for me when I got home.

After a little bit of tenseness, things seemed to warm up a lot. He seemed much more relaxed around me -- me too I guess. He's off to the Reserves this weekend so we're not going to see each other much. Before he left, he was saying that he's going to miss the Final 4 tomorrow and that he'd miss the championship game because "we have to go on a date" (he said it in this cute complaining voice -- I had asked him for a date because it's been a while since we've gone out). I told him that having a date of watching basketball was fine with me and he said "so, can we get dinner and some champagne?" Of course, I had to say yes because when you say no to champagne....!

I just keep realizing that I've lost sight of doing the things that work. I've been so caught up in my own fears and insecurities that I've let the DB'ing slip away. I think LL told me to, well, just do it!

Off to take a bubble bath with a glass of wine. Spent a while doing homework and now it's time for me to relax!

Thanks again everyone for helping me along!

Sage

[MAL]

Oooooooooo.....Bubbles and wine. That always does the trick for me. Enjoy!

I was thinking of heading that way myself.