our un-relationship

[azhira]

So, I've been thinking this morning about having that conversation with xh.

The one about how he's a wank, and is justifying his lack of commitment as 'protecting' me.

Okay, I'm feeling a little nasty this morning.

No, actually, I really am thinking of having that discussion. I mean, there was something last night, but it also occurred to me...that all of that yelling and cursing at him I did last year actually sunk in at some level. Maybe my approach was wrong (I plead angry pregnant woman), but it still affected him.

I'm not sure if I will do so soon, but I do have several things I want to tell him. I want to make sure it's a productive talk, not just me telling him he's an idiot.

ETA: can't spell this morning...

[DaveJ]

Don't sweat the angry pregnant woman thing. It's totally legit. All that crazy hormones. I swear I should've went into hiding when my W was pregnant. I think my W still holds onto that one nasty fight we had while she was pregnant with our D. She's like you should've never been yelling at me when I have high blood pressure and pregnant and etc. Of course she totally forgets all the mean and nasty things she yelled at me to trigger me in the first place into psycho panic mode.

I suggest you just do the straight forward direct approach and just tell him he's an idiot. Us guys appreciate a woman that's honest and straight forward. Maybe he needs to know that he's an idiot and he's taking you for granted.

[azhira]

Well, uh....the conversation devolved into tears and name-calling on both sides.

xh has no clue that our "friendship" is a lot like acting married. No, really. When I told him that, he had the most clueless look on his face...

Ugh.

So, after the meltdown last night...xh suggested this morning that I write him a letter, print it, hand it to him, and then answer questions as he reads through. I had avoided the letter writing thing in the past, as he had always said he didn't 'get' it, but this was his suggestion.

I think I will take some time to put it together. We both got way too reactive last night.

[Dom R]

xh has no clue that our "friendship" is a lot like acting married. No, really. When I told him that, he had the most clueless look on his face...

oooo.. that is potentially bad, in so many fronts.

how did you present it to him, and how did he take it?

[azhira]

Dom, yes, I know...believe me, the moment I said that, I knew what the problem was. He actually thinks we're not playing relationship....he told me he just thought we were 'really cool for the baby'. Um, yes. Except for the parts where we budget together, lend each other money, talk tens times a day about intimate feelings, have keys to each others' place, plan our days together, and yes, have sex. Sounds like a boyfriend to me! (Okay, that was venting...although I presented it much better here than I did to him...)

It's not like I was expecting an "Oh my God, we should just be married!" from him. Just that he understood what he was doing. I wasn't even asking him to stop hanging out with his friends or to cut off JD. I just want him to see what this is.

To be fair, I did a really bad job of presenting it to him. Timing was wrong, and I was way, way, way too emotional. He did seem very open to my explaining it--I just blew it and called him a cake-eating narcissistic @$$. (Yes, I know.)

So...backstory...I did the snooping thing. It wasn't completely random timing on my part; it was triggered by something very odd he said while we were fooling around. I knew he sent stupid ILY's to JD. Not news. I saw more of those. Then I also saw messages talking about "what's between them." xh still won't call her his gf, which p!sses me off for two reasons...

For one, I think as long as he doesn't 'label' what he's doing with either of us, he thinks that makes it okay. Two, if he won't call her his gf--while sending her cutesy messages--that shows a whole other level of disrespect for the women he is emotionally involved in.

Oh...and I guess there's three...... So, if he's been speaking with her like this for as many months as I think he has...there's no way they haven't become physical. (I'm not that dumb. He won't tell me either way.) It's not that they'd be sleeping together that's really upsetting to me...it's that he'd be sleeping with her, telling her he loves her, and then come back, play married with me, and sleep with me. And that it appears he doesn't see anything wrong with this.

So. I don't believe he's intentionally playing us both--but that is what he is doing. I do think he is open to having a rational discussion about it; I simply did a miserable job of talking to him about it. What few points I was able to calmly make, he said "I could see how you thought of it that way." It's not any one thing; it's the accumulation of them. And I was just totally blank at the time because I was so worked up. (This is a problem that I have in general.)

My plan is to take my time, write it out all in a letter, post here for feedback, and let him read through it. I will most likely have to pull waaaay back emotionally after that. I am trying to prepare myself for that; I think he needs to learn that this is not acceptable.

I also suspect he's more attached to me than he realizes. (He was very worried about me earlier during my extended prayers to the porcelain god. Ugh. Ate something bad or something.) I don't think it will be very pretty when I try to establish stricter boundaries. He accused me the other night of trying to use the baby against him when I said I felt the overnights were part of the problem. His response: xh refuses to spend one night away from the baby; therefore, he is justified in having a key to my place and sleeping over here. (Although he did offer to sleep on the couch.) Yes, I know how completely messed up this is.

Do I think he's capable of learning from this? Actually, yes I do. xh has learned that his behavior 2-3 years ago was inappropriate for a married man--and that my getting upset about it really did not make me a controlling person. (As I'm sure he is thinking I am now. His problem, though; not mine.) In addition, we both used to just not be bothered by a lot of this kind of stuff in the past. Neither of us saw the harm. Well...I've been learning...and so has he...

I think the key is, that I need to present it rationally (unlike last night), and the actually follow through with drawing back. I am worried it won't be pretty; but this is about how I will and will not relate to him.

Sorry if this is all a jumble. I'm still not feeling very well...mostly just stream-of-thought writing to clear my head.

ETA: Sheesh, can't type...

[Dom R]

Do I think he's capable of learning from this? Actually, yes I do. xh has learned that his behavior 2-3 years ago was inappropriate for a married man

SOo... he decided to drop the "married man" part, but keep the same behaviours?


PS: your behaviours sound more than "boyfriend". sounds more like "married people" to me too. apart from the whole owning separate places to live thing.


PPS: I thought you said, that he claimed, he wouldnt be having sex with both of you without telling you?

[azhira]

Yeah, I thought so, too. I'm not so sure I buy that, now. (Seriously. Who sends cutesy ILY texts/messages to someone for months without turning physical??)

So... he decided to drop the "married man" part, but keep the same behaviours?

Not exactly. He's not doing the out all night partying thing. He's not gone for hours on end, or overnight. I know all about his life; he's not this complete blank slate. He's not lying to me anymore. He's also worked really hard at his communication; he doesn't yell or just ditch me now. So, a bunch of those things are gone. His defense: But you know everything. Ugh. I really think he just doesn't know any better--but I don't think that makes it okay, either.

In retrospect, my gut kept telling me to do the 'tough love' approach back then. I just didn't listen. My gut said the same thing last year, while I was pregnant, and he was running around with TJ. So...I'm listening to my gut this time...

Honestly...nothing really changed...I just got p!ssed after something he said while we were getting physical. And I've been p!ssed since.

To be honest, it feels like when he and I were married and he started taking up with xow. Only, because he won't put 'labels' on it...that makes it okay now.

I think I'm going to sign up on Match.com myself. After all, since we're "not together" and he "doesn't have a girlfriend"...then I might as well "not date" as well, right? I really don't want anything serious, but why should I sit at home and miss out on all the fun?

Yes, I am feeling vindictive. But I really don't care at the moment. I'm tired of playing this stupid game.

I want to make this about me and my boundaries...not about trying to "punish" him. I think he thinks I really will always be there to fall back on. It's time I'm not.

[DaveJ]

Maybe "kicking him out" would get him out of his comfort zone and make him realize some stuff. Sometimes it's necessary for people to see things a bit clearer. It forces them to make certain choices they are trying to avoid.... In the end you do have to make yourself happy and protect yourself from his confusion.

BTW, can I borrow you to shake up my W a bit? :P j/k I don't think she'll ever really appreciate what I do for her until she feels that I won't always be there for her....

[Dom R]

To be honest, it feels like when he and I were married and he started taking up with xow. Only, because he won't put 'labels' on it...that makes it okay now.

i think that's what he's doing.

I think I'm going to sign up on Match.com myself. After all, since we're "not together" and he "doesn't have a girlfriend"...then I might as well "not date" as well, right? I really don't want anything serious, but why should I sit at home and miss out on all the fun?

btw: make sure, if he has a profile and you know about it, that it somehow manages to be a "90% match" or something, so you know it gets his attention

I want to make this about me and my boundaries...not about trying to "punish" him. I think he thinks I really will always be there to fall back on. It's time I'm not.

I think that in order to avoid the "vindictive" image, it's important to get into it gradually.
FIRST, state; "This is what I want: I'm not willing to deal with this two-timing garbage any more. "
State very specifically, what you cant put up with any more.

then see how he reacts.

then, only IF he is hard-nosed about it, be hard-nosed yourself.

In other words, dont to straight to, "get out until you shape up your life". Only go there, if you feel like you dont have any choice.

Firstly, because that's the "right" thing to do, in fairly confronting someone about an issue.

Secondly, because if you want things to work.. being separated SUCKS, for reconciliation.

[DaveJ]

Dom, being separated does suck. But it sometimes gives the person that was "kicked out" the extra kick to get their acts together so to speak sometimes. It would really make him understand what it takes to get back to what he really wants hopefully.

Of course I do agree that it should be used only if he's not willing to listen when the boundaries are drawn....

If he isn't willing to meet the requirements one way or another then he probably doesn't want the R no matter what you do....