was I the one who said not to expect anything from flirting? It sounds familiar, but I don't want to take credit for something I didn't say.
if I did, what I meant was that if he doesn't reciprocate, or give a good response, just play it out, without taking his reaction as a negative, but be playful instead. Like that time Michelle said she got all sexy and was either asking in a flirty tone to ML and then he declined and she walked out still flirting saying, too bad for you, it woulda been fun (with a sexy smirk). Or something like that. Maybe she was talking about one of her clients, now that I think about it.
and all your ideas sound great to me! And OMY GOODness, I didn't know you smoked, and I'm so glad your going to try to quit! That is soooooo important for your health and your children. Even if you don't smoke in the home, it's still on your clothes, and your children will love you more for it. And especially for spending time with them while they eat. eating together at the table is a very special time for kids to spend with their parents. I vaguely remember a study done on children that did/didn't eat with their parents regularly, and when they weren't eating with them regularly, certain areas of their lives, or themselves were decreased/damaged. I don't remember what it was, whether it was their happiness, or their abilities in school or what, but it was definitely a difference from those children who did eat with their parents regularly. I need to do that more often too. The computer/technology can definitely take away from what we really need to do in our lives.
Sounds like your in a good frame of mind right now and I'll be praying for good things to come!!!!
Me 33 H 34 S9 S3 M 6 yrs (2gether 11 yrs) EA/PA 1/2006 DB 5/2006 H wants D 6/2006 H wants ME 8/2006 H "said" PA/EA over 8/2006 H erased OW off phone! 2/2007
"It is far better 2 choose humility & change oneself, than 2 wait in vain trying 2 chang someone else."
Hi Puddle! Thanks for your kindness / thoughts / attention, everything. Talk to you later.
C
Me: 46 Wife: 39 D: 13 S: 11, 9, 7 Bomb 3.2.07, Sep Same Day, D papers 11.1.07 Current Status - Wants to take me through Discovery, I will go to prison first.
ST, thanks for the encouragement. Yes, quitting smoking is clearly important, and I know I'll spend more engaged time with the kids when I quit---no reason to go outside to "take a break" all the time.
CVA, great to see you here! I'm thinking about you. (((CVA))))
I've been thinking about the conundrum of showing H emotional vulnerability. I've had a couple of thoughts, and I'm curious to get some feedback.
First, I've been wondering for a long time whether H's attraction to COW had to do with her being needy and him wanting to play the savior. He's told me as long as he and I are talking about us he doesn't feel the need to talk to anyone else about it, and I wondered what the heck they spend so much time talking about. It occurred to me that I think H is filling a kind of counselor role for her, talking about all her problems. That rings true. Yesterday a mutual friend told me COW said she wants someone strong, and that resonated again. So I think my initial interpretation was correct.
Second, I'd been thinking, well, I'm not going to be weak, so if that's what he wants, he'll have to look elsewhere. But I think I've been confusing weakness with emotional vulnerability. In fact, I think I've *always* done that, and I've had a real struggle letting anyone be close enough to see me wrestling with any issues, appearing weak.
Third, the question remains: okay, so I'm willing to open myself up, but how? What do I say that's honest? The truth is, I'm not struggling right now with H leaving, not sad, not angry, not much of anything (except tired).
Then it occurred to me that I might share *that* with him, the fact that I'm surprised at how quickly I got to that point and I'm working hard to be sure I'm not stuffing my feelings because they're too painful to face. That last thought is a little scary for me.
I thought I might also say something about my concern about doing the same thing in my next R, express my determination not to use that defense mechanism again and my fear that I might, since it's served me so well for so long.
hey, and what about being emotionally open about other things about you? I mean, does it have to be about your H and your R? can it be about your goals or fears that has nothing to do with him?
I'm remembering what you said that H didn't like how you were fearful, or always got stressed out about things if they didn't happen the way you thought. it was a while back, and I can't remember exactly what it was. can you talk about that again? I would hate for your vulnerability to come across as the same. But I could be totally off from what I remember. Thanks!
Me 33 H 34 S9 S3 M 6 yrs (2gether 11 yrs) EA/PA 1/2006 DB 5/2006 H wants D 6/2006 H wants ME 8/2006 H "said" PA/EA over 8/2006 H erased OW off phone! 2/2007
"It is far better 2 choose humility & change oneself, than 2 wait in vain trying 2 chang someone else."
turning up the flirting factor sounds like a really good idea, plus it might be fun.
It *has* to be fun! Nothing to turn you off like pathetic, angry flirting!
I'm not much of a flirter---I'm pretty oblivious, actually---but I'm working on it. Even ordered some, um, books.
The visual of "angry flirting" is pretty funny Pud. Nothing wrong with researching it for tips, although I'm much better at flirting than the actual relationship, I got some good stuff out of John Grey's 'Venus & Mars on a Date' book years ago.
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Second, I'd been thinking, well, I'm not going to be weak, so if that's what he wants, he'll have to look elsewhere. But I think I've been confusing weakness with emotional vulnerability. In fact, I think I've *always* done that, and I've had a real struggle letting anyone be close enough to see me wrestling with any issues, appearing weak.
I'm right with you on this and trying to be more available emotionally.
I think it may be good to share that with him, although since I have the same difficulty, it's hard to know. I'll be interested to hear what others that are more open have to say. Sounds like it would be a good way to exercise getting out of your comfort zone, which is always scary/fun.
I'm remembering what you said that H didn't like how you were fearful, or always got stressed out about things if they didn't happen the way you thought.... I would hate for your vulnerability to come across as the same.
As would I. An excellent point! Thanks.
H says I fret---if we're running late, if plans get changed at the last minute, if things don't happen the way I thought they would. He wondered if I was upset when he dropped the bomb because my life wasn't working out the way I'd planned, which, of course, was partly true.
I've been working hard at rolling with the punches, staying calm when plans change, etc. That's the fretting part. I don't think he's seen that part since the bomb. I'd be curious to know what he thinks.
The other part is fear about bigger things---whether I'm a good mom, whether I'm really good at my work, etc. When I was in therapy before the bomb, I shared some of my feelings about that stuff, and H was surprised by my feelings, said he had no idea my brain worked that way, was sympathetic and seemed impressed about how far I'd come. I have no idea where he thinks I am regarding that stuff now.
Okay, so there's some more info. I certainly don't want to show him more of the same.
We've been emailing back and forth about what we want to come out of an S/D, kid time, etc. Last night when I got home late and tired, I went to bed. H came in and asked if I wanted to talk, and I asked if we could do it another time; I was beat. So a talk is coming.
Hey I'm "open" it hasn't really worked. Too open I guess.
C
Me: 46 Wife: 39 D: 13 S: 11, 9, 7 Bomb 3.2.07, Sep Same Day, D papers 11.1.07 Current Status - Wants to take me through Discovery, I will go to prison first.
So we've got one "go for it" from Sunny, who's also not an open book, and one "doesn't work" from CVA, who's open.
CVA, I'd like to hear what open looks like for you.
I think what I'm going for is being open while strong, back to my ultimate goal of emotional vulnerability combined with great strength. I'd like to feel like, "I have some fears about this ... share share share ... sharing that is scary and feels good at the same time ... I'm going to do x and y courageous thing in the face of the fear and see what happens."
Had a talk with the guy a while ago (not a Talk, just talking), during which he told me about his fears in an R (in general, not with me). He said something about them, then took a deep breath and said, "Wow, here's all my cards," and went on calmly re the fears. It was the sexiest thing I've seen in a long time.
The visual of "angry flirting" is pretty funny Pud
Puddle, the angry flirter...would that be something like "Hey there, handsome, d*mn you to h*ll!!!" Another one would be a passive-agressive flirter: "Hey there handsome, I mean, I guess you are...whatever you think, I mean I don't know..."
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I think what I'm going for is being open while strong, back to my ultimate goal of emotional vulnerability combined with great strength.
I think this is great stuff; and actually something that i was touching on this morning in IC (not about you, of course ) Do I recall correctly from upstream that your more natural reaction is to be more remote and closed down as a show of strength? If so, that's a real part of what i had been doing for years and years...holding back in important, necessary convos with my H out of fear: of being wrong, of being rejected, of whatever else I was spinning/fretting over at the time...and we know how well that's been working out for me!
I think you are on the right track here...and the flirting can be part of that more open (and vulnerable) and strong you. To me, open doesn't mean sharing 100% unfiltered reactions to everything, or engaging in verbal diarrhea; you want to be open to sharing your feelings (like you said that guy did), and I don't think that has to be synonymous with being an open book... I think that's in line with what the mysterious, exotic Sunny recommends... I'm thinking that, at least for me, what feels more now like deliberate flirting with H was a more natural occurrance once upon a time, a looooooong time ago, when the R was lighter, happier and better.
Of course, all of this is predicated on you actually wanting to try this...sounds like a definite 180! And angry or passive-aggresive flirting is verboten!!
I might suggest, since your H has asked twice now about talking, if you make a date for it or something. or does your H like spontaneity?
and thanks for the clarification too. that makes sense and it looks like your doing all the right things.
Me 33 H 34 S9 S3 M 6 yrs (2gether 11 yrs) EA/PA 1/2006 DB 5/2006 H wants D 6/2006 H wants ME 8/2006 H "said" PA/EA over 8/2006 H erased OW off phone! 2/2007
"It is far better 2 choose humility & change oneself, than 2 wait in vain trying 2 chang someone else."
) Do I recall correctly from upstream that your more natural reaction is to be more remote and closed down as a show of strength? If so, that's a real part of what i had been doing for years and years...holding back in important, necessary convos with my H out of fear: of being wrong, of being rejected, of whatever else I was spinning/fretting over at the time...and we know how well that's been working out for me! 