Journalling....I was thinking of sending this to him in an email which is why I refer to h as 'you'.
Would this be bad to send to him? Maybe edit it heaps. There's so many thing I need to talk to him about practical/emotional/ to do with d etc and he won't talk to me when I address him.
This morning when you rang me I felt attacked when you launched straight into being angry and demanding to know why I haven't returned your calls. I was actually busy at someone else's desk between 3 and 5pm yesterday and did not have my phone on me. I had a missed call from your work number and had one message notification. I checked the message but it was blank. I checked it again in case I didn't hear it properly but I still could not hear anything. At the time I was in a rush to get home and I was nervous/anxious about talking to you when I didn't know what the topic would be. I didn't want to call you back and end up having a fight on the phone while I was travelling home on the train within earshot of other people. When I got home, I had 15 minutes to get d bathed before A got to the house to babysit. Again I did not want to ring you when someone else was around and I did not want to have a fight with you again on the phone. I will not be returning your calls unless you leave a message indicating what you wanted to talk about. I will be assuming that if you want me to call you that you will leave a message outlining what you need to talk to me about or text me with a request to call you RE whatever the subject is. I will be able to talk to you civilly and politely about d or other practical things. I do not want to get into emotional or angry discussions. I will be doing my best to be calm, polite and friendly to you. If I feel that I am not able to be pleasant and objective about the discussion I will request that we talk another time. When you sound hostile or angry, I feel anxious and I start to get tongue tied. I would rather not continue a conversation when I feel that way because I start to say things that I did not plan on saying and make less and less sense. ..... I start to say things that I think will calm you down rather than what I meant to say. This ends up making you more angry when you discover it’s not what I meant to say.
If you wish to have detailed conversations about d and arrangements to see her, let me know ahead of time that you wish to talk about her and I will respond as soon as possible. I have no desire to block or diminish your relationship with her. I need you to cooperate with me in this.
I do expect that if you wish to talk to me about something, that you can start a conversation off in a pleasant manner. It serves no purpose to be hostile straight away as I just get anxious in return and nothing useful comes of the conversation.
When you called me this morning, my recollection of the conversation is this: Me "hello?" You "where are you" Me "just leaving arena" You "why haven't you answered my calls?" Me "when?" (my first thought was that you were referring to this morning but I had had my phone on me and I was sure that I had checked it. My second thought was "oh, maybe he means the blank message he left me yesterday - I wonder if he means yesterday or today?") You (can't remember exactly what you said but the gist was that you were pissed that I hadn't returned your calls. My anxiety levels had gone way up and I stopped listening properly because I was trying to defend myself against what I felt was you being hostile) Me "when are you talking about?" (I wasn't trying to be obtuse on purpose, I just wanted to know if you meant today or yesterday) You "where are you?" Me "just leaving arena. I have to take x to gymnastic lessons" (you know I have to leave straight after swimming lessons in order to make it on time - or perhaps you don't....?) You "where exactly are you?" Me "on kennedya drive" (I had pulled over) You (again I can't clearly remember what you said because): a) I was anxious because I didn't know why you were calling other than to get angry with me about not returning your call, b) I was anxious because I didn't want to be late for X's gymnastics, c) I was anxious because I didn't want x to hear us arguing on the phone d) I was anxious and worried that you would demand that I turn around and come and see you and I didn't want to speak with you while you were sounding angry and end up being late to gym.
I think you ended the call at this point.
D asked me after the call had finished what had happened. I didn't really know what to say. I think I said that you were angry with me because I hadn't answered your calls and I didn't know what you wanted.
She then asked me if "you guys had broken up" I thought for a moment and believed I needed to say yes, so I did. But then I added that we have been “broken up for a while”.
She seemed okay with that at the time but just before we got to gymnastics I realised she was crying. I asked her what she was crying about and she said "because you adn daddy are broken up"
It seems that if we are talking pleasantly and civilly to each other and spending time together that she has not fully appreciated that we have separated. I don't blame her, it has been confusing for me and I'm sure it's been confusing for you too.
When AC (friend her age that is staying over tonight) got here I overheard d say to her. "Guess what?" (in a serious tone) AC: "What" X: "My mum and dad have broken up." AC: [didn't hear her response but I don't think she validated x at all, she probably had no idea what to say] X: [again I didn't quite hear but she said something else about us]
Then later when you came around and ignored me when you came in, X said to AC "See? I told you"
If you feel that I am putting d in the middle of this, let me know in an email how you would like me to deal with it. I believe I am doing the best that I can and I would like to be able to talk to you calmly about the best way to put d's needs first.
d told me on Tuesday that you had taken her to your place. I was glad and pleased that you have shown her where you now live. d also told me that you told her not to tell me where you live. I felt left out to start with because you know where I am most of the time and you have so far come and gone as you pleased in and out of our house. I don't feel like I have a sanctuary where I can have privacy from you. However, because I don't know where you live (or even who with - and believe me, the very first thought that crossed my mind was that you must be living with E already and told d not to tell me - though I acknowledged that was an unreasonable thought to have) you have a 'safe' place that you can retreat to but I do not. Then I felt sad because I thought that you must be either scared or suspicious of me and think that I would stalk you or something. It is not fair to ask a 6 year old to keep secrets from one parent to another. It will conflict with her loyalty. I can see how happy and bouncy she is when the three of us are together. It will make her feel conflicted. I actually said to her that I know what suburb you live in and that I don't really need to know where you live as I would not come around to your house unless you had invited me. I would like to know that you would afford me the same respect. I accept that it's a little less clear because you will need to come around to see d which is fine but if you wish to see me or talk to me, I would like a heads up before you rock on up. Even if it's a text message.
On Thursday after counselling when I tried to find out if you still wanted the microwave and you ignored me, d said "Daddy said to tell you that he doesnt' want anything from you". That's about when I lost my cool. I hope you recall me saying that I don't want you to use d to send messages between us. It is not fair on her. It is against all advice that I have read from websites like Relationships Australia etc. It puts d squarely in the middle and I'm sure that is not your intention. I understand that I have hurt you but I do expect that we both put d first. If you feel that I am not doing that, then let me know by email. Also please let me know what you do expect from me with respect to d. I do need you to tell me when you can spend time with her and how we can both ensure that she gets quality time with both of us even if we are separated.
On Friday morning as I was putting d's school bag into the boot of the car, d asked me what the microwave was and what it was for. I replied that I had gotten it for daddy but that you didn't seem to want it any more. d repeated what she had said the previous day about you not wanting anything from me. She also told me that she asked you if "you and mummy still love each other" and that you said "yes, but you didn't think mummy loved you any more". I told her that I do love daddy because he helped me to make you.
I do love you h, but I don't like the angry person you are being. I don’t want to spend time with someone who won’t look at me, who won’t talk to me except to mention sexual things, who gets hurt when I want to spend time on my own. I don't like the person I become when I am around you either. I don't like the hostility and the hurt in the air. I am continually anxious around you. You are an angry person because of what I have said to you on Monday night and you didn't allow me to finish what I had planned to try and say. I need the space to be able to work out how to be clear and cleanly communicate with you. At the moment, I just get all flustered and make the situation worse because I do not want you to be angry with me. I am scared of your anger. I know that you will not physically hurt me, but I am scared of what you will say, particularly when d is around. I do my best to act normal when she is around and it may look like I don't care, but the reality is that I am trying not to get upset or angry or react because I don't want d to see. When you get angry and raise your voice, I cringe. It doesn't seem to affect d. Is that because it really doesn't bother her or is it because if she does react and get upset, you get angry with her for being upset. YOu are very good at validating her feelings when it comes to something new that is external to our family or like about (our dogs that died a couple of years ago) but when she continues to be upset about it you appear very impatient with her for not 'getting over it'. I know it's hard. I have trouble too but I don't see you taking a deep breath and calming her down appropriately. What I see is you demanding her to stop being upset.
This post is copied from my journal from Monday 29th Oct. so it chronicologically goes before the previous post.
So the build up to me sort of finding some *ahem* balls comes below. Unfortunately during the 'crucial conversation' I didn't get a chance to get out all the other nthings I needed to say like the importance of spending time with d (he knows this anyway), because he hung up on me.
Last week I was nervous all week at the thought of spending most of SAturday with him and d. I was going to say I was indirect about wanting some 'me' time but as it turns out I wasn't. I acutlaly did say straight out that I wanted some tijme alone and I might even not go out that night (cos d was supposed to stay at his place) adn just stay home. He seemed hurt and insulted that if I wasn't going to go out that I would rather spend time alone than spend time with him and d. Man, I mean, fo rme it was going to be tgense so I really didnt' fancy being tense _all_ day.
As it was, Saturday was tense and uncomfortable for me most of the day (d was clingy to me and didn't want to do anything unless I was right there with her) and anxious later in the day. He keeps nudging his way back in and gets all sad when I try and block him . Then I feel guilty, let him in, then go all passive aggressive on his a** because I resent him.
Still journalling (copying from paper journal to get feedback from you cats)
On Friday, I half realised that I wouldn't be getting any time on Saturday to do any of my own stuff (grocery shopping, waxing etc) and plus I was nervous about not having a chance to take 'time out' and have a break if things aren't going well.
So I rang h about lunchtime on Friday like he'd asked me to (remember this is the same day that he rang me in the morning about Loopy - so I had already had one upset and anxious interaction with h that day and wasn't keen to repeat the feeling). Anyway, he didn't answer the phone so I ended up leaving a rambling message in which 'I thought that maybe, if he didnt' mind, I could duck off to get waxed while da nd h were at gymnastics. However, in the same breath I said I han't yet made an appointment anyway so I'll probably just defer it to the next week.'
I guess I was trying to do in my typical indirect way (which seems to be a sure fire way to p*ss h off yet I don't know how to stop being anxious and stressed when trying to be honest about how I feel and what I am worried about) was point out that I was actually giving up GAL time for me in order to spend it with him. Additionally, in my mind, it was more important for h to spend time with d rather than h spending time with me.
Anyway, he calls me back about 5-10 minutes later and sounds a bit miffed and said something like "so, we're supposed to spend time together but you're going to abandon me with d while you bugger off to get waxed?". Of course I backed down, saying I hadn't even made an appointment and it was only a suggestion. Then he hmade some sort of comment about being upset that I was going elsewhere for waxing (he used to do all my waxing) and I think he would have like to keep doing it). Hellooo? Does he expect to still be able to wax me??
So I was trapped into expecting to be spending all day SAturday with him until the late afternoon when I expected that d would go with him to his place and I could then unwind.
Journalling....I was thinking of sending this to him in an email which is why I refer to h as 'you'.
Would this be bad to send to him? Maybe edit it heaps. There's so many thing I need to talk to him about practical/emotional/ to do with d etc and he won't talk to me when I address him.
Honestly, I'm not sure what sort of reaction you expect to get from that e-mail. If he's angry, then you just need to back off for a while and let him cool down. It is unfortunate that D has become involved - Maybe having her talk to a C would be helpful.
I think the 48hr rule defiantly applies to whatever conversation you have with H about all of this. I'd not send an e-mail though. If I got that in my e-mail, even when I wasn't angry, it'd be pretty frustrating to read.
Back off, give him some time and then see what happens. Work with D on your own for a while and make sure the most important thing is that she is not thrown for a loop by all of this.
[quote=BritInOH Honestly, I'm not sure what sort of reaction you expect to get from that e-mail. If he's angry, then you just need to back off for a while and let him cool down. It is unfortunate that D has become involved - Maybe having her talk to a C would be helpful.
I think the 48hr rule defiantly applies to whatever conversation you have with H about all of this. I'd not send an e-mail though. If I got that in my e-mail, even when I wasn't angry, it'd be pretty frustrating to read.
Back off, give him some time and then see what happens. Work with D on your own for a while and make sure the most important thing is that she is not thrown for a loop by all of this.
[/quote] Thanks Brit,
I started off that 'email' to him because there are things I need to communicate with him but then my fingers just took over and that whole email came out. I posted it here in lieu of sending it - it made me feel better to put it somewhere where someone would read it, rather than just have it sit in my drafts folder. If I do end up sending it, it will be a far cut down version and the first email I send him will be dealing with d and d only (eg providing options as to when he can see her etc). I'll probably post it here as well to get feedback before I send it. You're right about it being a frustrating email...I kinda didn't really edit it before I posted it.
We took d to a counsellor on thursday. I'll post about that later, but I'm glad she has a chance to talk to someone.
Yeah...I'll need to back off. Unfortunately, I've gone too far in backing off from him, but I was having trouble dealing with the unpredictability of the situation (eg when he would call, what he would say, whether he would touch me etc) and went too far in trying to regain control by shutting him out altogether.
Has anyone else done this? ie shut their spouse out to protect themselves and their spouse then responds with shutting them out in return?
Continuing to journal (transposing bits of my paper journal)
Friday night of last week....can't really remember what I did.
SAturday morning, h texts me at 6am to tell me that he had woken up with conjunctivitis. I texted back that I would get him something from the chemist because I was pretty sure he'd be stuck at work and wouldn't have time to go to the chemist himself. I couldn't work out why else he would tell me (would be nice if he explained why! - did he want my sympathy? did he want to cancel the family date because he felt crappy? I dunno)took d to swimming lessons at 8.30am.
went to the chemist on the way to swimming lessons.
When we got to swimming lessons (which are in the same centre as the gym where he works) I couldn't see him up in the gym (through the big window that overlooks the pool) so I texted him after a few minutes to let him know we were here. He came down about one-third of the way through her lesson. I gave him a cap that I'd gotten for free the day before and the drops for his eyes. Small talk...was ok. Finish lessons - he says he'll meet us at gymnastics. I take d into the change rooms to get changed - rush rush rush (I have half an hour to get from swimming lessons to gymnastics lessons and it's in a different suburb!).
Get to parking lot. I expected that h would have left already but he was sitting in his ute checking his phone (bloddy thing, he can't do without it these days, dunno whether he is just doing work stuff (ringing clients etc) or something else. d runs up to his car and wants to travel with him but he says that he needs to go get petrol (which would mean d wouldn't get to gymnastics in time).
d and I get to gymnastics on time. h doesn't end up getting there till nearly half an hour later. he has gotten changed. d was getting anxious that he took so long to get there and I was getting peeved because I want him to see what she has been learning. More small talk, tell him she's doing and what she learnt last week. d would look over frequently and wave at us both.
I wanted to check what we were doing for the rest of the day (I knew we were going to a movie later on in the arvo but I wasn't 100% sure what we were doing between gymnastics and the movie). I had suggested going down to the marina and having lunch there. I asked if we were going down to the marina (weather was foul). h said there was a couple of things on - an ag show (unusual choice for him but possibly he selected it because he thought I would like it) or a hot rod show at the exhibition centre (booooring). Because it was such unpredictable weather it meant that the ag show wouldn't be a good pick and h had one (note..only one) free pass to the car show so we agreed to go to the car show (*sigh*).
Ag....need to pause here. Have to go cook brekkie for d and her friend. Will continue later.
So, we went back to the house (I was going to call it home but it ain't his home any more) to drop off his ute (no point in going in two cars). I drove to the car show (this is unusual as h normally drives us everywhere but I figured this is basically my car now and if I drive I can just concentrate on driving and not be tempted to make stupid small talk that will just irritate him) and he sat with his eyes closed the whole time (I think he actually went to sleep) and didn't talk. It is almost certainly because of his conjunctivitis but it didn't help to make me feel better about being with him, I was getting more and more tense as we approached our destination as I had to take a different route to get there and I was just waiting for him to wake up and snap at me for not knowing exactly where I was (I had to go a less familiar way so i was a little stressy). As it was he didn't wake up or snap so I shouldn't have gotten myself worked up.
When we got there and we had been directed to where we had to pay to get in, he announces that he hasn't got any money. No matter, I knew I should pay for myself but I was a bit miffed that he hadn't mentioned it before and we could have at least discussed it and talked about sharing the admission price for d (I find cars crap boring and so I wasn't too keen to have to pay twenty bucks to get in, plus this car show thing got sprung on me only an hour or so before). Luckily, I didn't have to pay for d (she was young enough).
h met up with a lady who I guess gave him the free pass (cos she had a car on the show) and after she met me she introduced me to her husband as h's partner (I'm not sure why this irked me, but I am his wife dammit) makes me wonder what people assume about what's going on. h wouldn't have said anything but gossip being what it is...who knows what sort of stuff has gotten around his workplace. We had lunch straight away. Bloddy 27 bucks for a crappy hamburger, chicken roll, cup of hot chips, a juice and a water. Of course, guess who paid for that too? Yeah rite....me...yay me.
Poor d got bored pretty quick. One of the first few stalls had a catalog of what turned out to be lingerie and tattoos. H was flipping through it and I was sorta looking over his shoulder, he pointed out one thing the model in the catalog was wearing and made a comment along the lines of that he would like to see me in something like that. I sorta blushed but didn't say anything and I was a little pleased by the attention but wary at the same time because this is the guy who wants to move on with his life yet still seems to be linked with me sexually. Hmm...hard to explain.
So we spent two to three hours there.
I'll put a break in here...I gotta go pick d up from her friends place.
