Help me thru this sitch

[Pudmuddle]

Thanks Pudbuddy,

Yes I can be a big talker, and I can wear my heart on my sleeve. But I am now realizing that never got me anywhere and I also have actually felt how much less energy it takes to slow down, be kind, patient and attentive, than it does to react, get defensive and angry...and that is a stress relief I didn't count on but is FANTASTIC.

I will practice listening more to him, in fact I have been practicing this with my son. Instead of always telling him what to do, I listen and he has been much more responsive to me, so I do see that it works.

Being heard is powerful.

Short sentence but VERY PROFOUND. That will be my new mantra when he begins to talk with me:

Being heard is powerful.
Being heard is powerful.
Being heard is powerful.

Excellent point.

[Pudmuddle]

Wow, we had an exchange this morning! And it all started because my son left the toilet plugged up. LOL

I am still shaking like a leaf, I can barely type. I was proud that I did remain calm, a few tears leaked out but I am a cryer. But I didn't bawl, just leaked.

My husband started in on my son being what I thought was very critical, raising his voice and coming down hard on him because he left the toilet plugged overnight. I just had to interject because I didn't feel it was THAT bad, just a mistake or carelessness on my son's part but not worth of a yelling match before school. So I said "please calm down" and H kind of looked at me funny. Then when my S went in to fix the toilet, I said "I don't believe yelling at him is necessary" And my H said "I am not yelling" and I said "well you are raising your voice and being very stern". Then my husband thought for a moment and said"I find it funny that you are telling me I am being critical when you used to yell at him and do the exact same things" I said " I think there are more effective ways of teaching him right than yelling and being critical" I calmly said"But I am changing, that is a person I don't want to be". He said "Well I'm glad you are changing". That was that for the moment.

Then after we rounded up everything for school and my son out the door, I said to my H "I agree that I have been that way in the past, but I am changing and I no longer want to be that person. I just wish you could see that and look inside yourself as well". I could see some anger boiling to the surface on his face and he said "I am glad you are changing, but I still think you are just playing games with me, for who knows how long you were playing games with me to get my attention or to get me to react to you". I again said "I agree with you (Im learning!!)I did do those things because I didn't know how to deal with you not sharing". He said"Well I just don't know what to believe in you because for 15, 17 years you acted this way" I said" Oh Stewart, I was probably this way for 4-5 years of our marriage and that is a very small percentage of our marriage and I am changing and want to be the person I used to be, but better". He said "Well maybe I am just not used to seeing you this way and haven't seen this in a long time, so I don't understand it". I said " I know" and he said "I'm glad your are changing and maybe I need to change too."

And then he had to leave to get my son to the bus stop. But Whew!!! That was the first exchange we have had regarding our R and I didn't bring up any of the R stuff first, he did. Plus I find it ironic that it all started from a toilet. LOL, perhaps that is symbolic of where our marriage was, :D.

So, how do you all think I did? I am getting better at this Puddle and Heim! I hope I did you proud, because I certainly feel a tad better. It was a symbolic baby step I thought.

Plus, we have our S's counseling this afternoon, and my H had asked a few days ago if we really needed to go...I said "well I think that is up to our S". My H said he thought that our S was actually doing quite well. That shocked me because it shows he has really not been paying attention to anyone but himself. Imagine that. So we consulted our S and he said he still wanted to go. My H still thinks that just because people are not talking about the bad things that everything is ok. Thats how I feel about 180ing and LRTing on him because he thinks everything is ok. But he did open up this morning, so it's a start.

Gosh my nerves are shot at the moment. SIGH.

[Pudmuddle]

Oh, and something else he said during that last convo regarding the playing games "I can't believe someone would do that to someone they love". This is exactly what made me feel terrible for the 4-5 years we were going downhill...This is where I had begun to completely devalue myself and became an awful negative person to be around. He has never, ever said this to me before and I wish he had sooner. He is the good-at-keeping-it-all-in type. But let's it explode 5 years later? How awful that must've been to keep that inside all this time.

[Heimlich]

Good one, Puddle. Being heard is powerful. Realized that neither my W nor I think that the other one really heard them for a year or three, methinks. Fodder for thought, that.

Joan,

You've mentioned being more patient with your S a few times now and that's excellent. I realized that I had gotten snappish with my girls for a while and dialed that way back. Now when I finally get riled up, they know it's serious.

agree that I have been that way in the past, but I am changing and I no longer want to be that person. I just wish you could see that and look inside yourself as well". I could see some anger boiling to the surface on his face and he said "I am glad you are changing, but I still think you are just playing games with me, for who knows how long you were playing games with me to get my attention or to get me to react to you".

It's OK to say this once, maybe twice. But leave it. Show him the changes. He'll notice. That also sounds like the WAS manual -- I don't trust the changes, blah, blah. My W said something very similar to me. Keep changing to the person you want to be. That moves the decision to leave from them being able to focus on the negatives about you to them possibly thinking, "he/she really has changed, maybe I was wrong." Plant those seeds of doubt.

Plus I find it ironic that it all started from a toilet. LOL, perhaps that is symbolic of where our marriage was, :D.

LOL

It's good that your S wants to go to counselling.

Good stuff. And, the usual caveat, prepare for your H to go cold and distant on you for a while. Also part of their manual.

BD

[Pudmuddle]

Hi Heim,

Thanks for responding. Yes I do agree with you that I should only say 'the change' thing once or twice, because at some point it becomes just words again. I think I have mentioned it maybe 3 or 4 times now, but it is also the first thing that comes to my mind when he says 'you used to do this' or 'you used to be this way'. So I need to think of something else to say, perhaps just agree with him? 'Yes I was that way'. I just cannot believe how much hurt he is still harboring and I wish he would talk!!! Aaaaaaargh. I know, I know...PATIENCE.

Yes, I expect the distance again, after this and after we go to my S's counseling, so double whammy.

[Pudmuddle]

Ok So...we went to my son's counseling and it went good for my son. He got to open up and tell his feelings to the counselor about what is happening between us. I think it was a real eye opener for my H on how it will affect our son. The C said no matter what we do it is always traumatic for the children and they always end up blaming themselves somehow. As I mentioned before my S ADORES his father, and my son is one of the sensitive kids, so for him to leave would be traumatic... Not that I want to use this to turn my marriage around, but I hope it opened his eyes some. Then when we got out of the office, my H and I went our separate ways, but before we left said "So do you think we should talk about this at home?" I bit my tongue(which is slowly becoming a bloody stump, LOL) and I said "Do you?" He said "Yes, I think we should". So who knows what that will be about...but I'm sure I will be back here posting about it...

[Pudmuddle]

Oy. We had a really good talk my H and I after the counseling session for my S. Really seemed to break some ice for my H. However, I woke up this morning feeling really down. He told me some things I had never heard him say before. Maybe I'll post later on the topic when I am in a better mood.

Take care everyone,

[LostInMN]

((((Puddle))))

I know just how you feel, as do so many of us here on the board. I'm feeling it today, hopefully I feel better this afternoon.

Take care of yourself.

[lizzy]

Hi Joan, I haven't read all of your thread, but I see what you mean about our stories being similar. Sounds like communication in both of our Ms shut down years ago. I may have missed it, but when did your son start seeing a C. I have talked to both of our DDs, but neither wants to go. D9 isn't taking it as hard as D15. I have found out that both have told one friend that they thought would understand. They want to keep it a secret right now.

I understand you wanted responses from others. I have found this to be my sounding board now. It is great to have a place to get things off your chest. Notice that a lot more people read your thread than post, so at least you know someone is listening and thinking about you.

[Pudmuddle]

Hi lizzy,

Thanks for reading my post. Good to see you here. My S only saw a counselor this Thursday and it was good for my H to see how he could be affecting our S in the long run. He thought he was doing well too and didn't realize how kids internalize and try to make things better. Because in the Cs office, the floodgates opened up. So he has only seen him once, but confirmed my suspicions about how he is feeling. ie, that it really IS bothering him. You might just try and see if your DDs would go once and then don't have to go again if they don't want. That's what I told my S. It made my son feel good to talk to someone else other than the people that are having the problems, us.

I was having an off day the day that I was being demanding about peeps reading my posts (sheepish look). I have since found that this is an excellent sounding board as you said and there are many good people in the same sitch.