our un-relationship

[DaveJ]

I'm just saying fear can do a lot to ones thinking process. Not necessarily that he's a jerk. Fear makes you do things you normally wouldn't do, or not do things that a person would normally do.....

It is good that he's comfortable to discuss with you his issues. There's a certain amount of comfort and trust involved.

Just like my W, I think these deeply ingrained issues will be a life long struggle. It's never fully fixed. They will always struggle against it.... At least he's realizing that he shouldn't be anywhere near an R until he feels he's more in control of his issues. For my W, she seems way too eager to jump into the dating even though she has lots and lots of things that she still needs to deal with. Ah well....out of my control. :P

[Dom R]

Oh, Dom, just realized what you meant. lol

No, he's afraid of dating other people because he would lose the sex, intimacy, etc. with me. He's hesitant to date me because he'd have to pull back/redefine his friendships with a couple of his FF's. [...]

Is that more clear??

Ohhhh..
yeah, much more clear.

more clear that he's just being selfish

I'd be worried about the no sex thing. seems like he'd do that if he started having sex with someone else. "meaningless sex"(without "intimacy" perhaps), but sex just the same

[possible way to approach this at an oblique angle:
roll over in bed one night, and say "dammit, I'm horney! how about helping me out?"
If he objects.. either he'll be honest about why he is really objecting, or you might get a better feel on the issue.
]

[Dom R]

PS:

My gut says he's afraid of making the wrong choice, or trying to date (anyone) too soon. I suspect he's afraid he's not 100% 'fixed' yet, and is afraid of ruining another workable R.

What's to be 'fixed' ?

seems to me like he just has everything he wanted, and why change?

If he isnt out screwing someone else now, he might actually be attempting to do the right thing, by pressuring himself to choose you by virtue of wanting sex with you.

personally, though, i think that's silly.
If he knows enough to pressure himself in your direction... he should know enough to just choose you in the first place.

So I think he's just playing dumb mind games with himself and you; instead he should straighten up and do the right thing.

most people dont stop being attracted to people other than [their intended] before they are married. he should know that already.

so if he's waiting for himself to not want to "hang out" with those other women any more... that will probably never happen, and things will never change in a positive direction from where they are

[azhira]

Maybe I'm giving him too much credit, but I honestly don't believe he's playing dumb mind games. This last year has been absolutely awesome for him on personal improvements...

1. He finally got his butt enrolled in school (after years of just talking about it), and is doing really well.

2. He's entirely supporting himself for the first time in his life.

3. He's taking an honest look at his own deep-seated issues. (Abuse-related.) He did a lot of work last year, and is no longer such an angry person. He now does an awesome job of talking through (most) arguments with me.

As far as the no sex...eh...it's more complicated than that.

He has huge touch issues. I can't initiate, without freaking him out. We did fool around some, a couple of nights back, so that was nice. He told me he still has a hard time, and often still feels like I'm 'taking advantage' of him, even when he has asked me to do something as mild as a leg massage. (Yes, I know what and why he has these problems.)

I wish it were as simple as just saying "You want to get it on??" lol I usually have to just watch his actions, and pick up on clues as to whether or not he is 'open' at the time. Pick a bad time...and he goes running for the hills.

Incidentally...I am actually okay with all of that. Sometimes I feel guilty for pushing that button with him...but I understand this will likely always be a huge issue for him. And I have come to terms with that. Would I love to rock his world? Absolutely! (And, lucky me, I'm fairly HD. Oh well.) But, I accept that this is something about him where we don't always line up.

(Although he seems to be relaxing again...we have been doing some nice erotic cuddling the last few days.)

Oh, and by the way...it's not like I'd excuse his behavior if he were to actually date someone while I play sort-of-wife. I do trust him to tell me. And, at that point, there would be some major boundary changes on my end. I have told him this.

The other thing is...when I successfully DB'ed before...we just sort of slid from angry separation back toward married life. There was no sudden AHA moment...just a conversation to confirm what we both already knew. With xh, I found that the more we hung out, the more we did together, the more he 'remembered' how much he enjoyed being together. What we're doing now is basically the same pattern, just much more drawn out.

Besides...if he's cake-eating...so am I... It's all fun, no nagging husband, and no feeling crazy and jealous on my side. I can go to my home whenever I want, with the mattress he would have never bought (but I love), no stupid messes, and decorated my style.

(Yeah, I know. You can throw things at me now!)

[Dom R]

heh heh... no throwing.. you sound a little silly.. but i'm glad that your situation doesnt sound as hazardous as it sounded on the surface

"enjoy", i guess ... and I hope that mr. timid fully warms up to things again

I'd almost be worried if i were in your situation... except that it sounds better than my situation, so i'm jealous

[azhira]

As I've said, I'm not entirely certain that I want that mess back. We'll see...I'm leaning more towards wanting to give at another go. (I'd be kidding myself if I said I was over him...not by a long shot, clearly.)

I am worried. Broke down last night about it, actually. xh and I had a nice talk...he reassured me that I had 'nothing to worry about'.

Oh...that jogged my memory...he and I did have a lengthy discussion the other night about this topic. He said he wouldn't be the sleaze dating someone while messing around with me. Of course, it made me wonder he was thinking of asking out. lol

Just random thoughts...

[azhira]

So, I think I told xh ILY in my sleep last night.

Not sure that was the best idea...but...whatever...it's been on my mind a lot lately, just been biting my tongue.

He also tried to initiate. Unfortunately...timing doesn't work biologically for me at the moment. Ah, well.

Other things I've noticed...

xh keeps saying "I'm different now" or "I don't do that anymore" when I mention I didn't do xyz because of how I thought he would react. Huh. It's not that I'm being vindictive or anything, but, after 7 years of knowing someone, you usually know what things will make the other person angry. Anyway, it's interesting that he keeps saying that. (And, actually isn't getting angry when I would have expected him to.)

He hasn't gone into crazy-mode in over a year. He's been on a once-a-year cycle. We've even gone through some major events, and he hasn't completely freaked out yet.

ETA: was a little unclear in a couple of places

[Dom R]

I am so glad for you :-) it sounds like your (un)marriage is progressing wonderfully... i can only hope and pray that mine someday can recover that far,and further.

I'm jealous (and freakin horney.. gah, my hormones are nuts today. Actually, i'm not sure it's even hormones, it feels a bit different from that. i just keep thinking of cuddling with my wife naked.
All... Freakin... Day today )

(ok, snap out of it, Dom...)

Side comment: If he initiated... why not "reward him" in one way or another, rather than turn him down, just because it "doesnt work for YOU right now" ?

One of the best ways to encourage a man to initiate.. is to never turn him down when he does.

[azhira]

Well, I was totally asleep at the time. (Which, by the way, isn't so unusual. There are...benefits...to being that relaxed... ) IIRC correctly, we may have made out/kissed some...but I was totally asleep, and can be a very heavy sleeper. I will offer to, uh, return the favor (so to speak) later...but, as always, timing is so very delicate with him. He might be feeling 'off' tonight.

Here's how I learned to deal with my hormones...cause they drive me crazy too... Instead of thinking how I'm not getting anything and how it's driving me up a wall...I try to think of it as a food craving. (I have pretty good food craving control. Insert some other desire if you want here.) It's biological, it's normal, and it's okay if I don't have a chocolate chip cookie until later. Conversely, no need to feel guilty if I'm day-dreaming about a buffet...just realize it's okay to not have the goodies right now. I will have something later.

xh has been much more open since I told him the other night that, yes, I'd love to pounce him...but it's okay, and I don't feel like I'm going to lose my mind if I don't anymore. Seems to have helped him feel more open physically the last few days.

Good luck...we went a whole year without...of course, I had pregnancy and childbirth in the middle of that to help squash my interest.

[DaveJ]

Dom, I know exactly what you mean. It's us missing that emotional connection that comes with the physical connection. I feel exactly the same way..... Especially for those of us that our primary love language is physical touch. It can be pretty agonizing at times....