This whole situation confuses me endlessly. I'm somewhat jealous of the guys around here whose W's are clearly done and have no emotional investment in the M. I get so many mixed signals it's driving me crazy.
which is funny. because the guys in that group who are "still standing", are jealous of you.
I would say that you are feeling bad, becuase you are stuck swinging between "I really want my wife to fully commit to me, right NOW!!", and "I just dont want to care any more".
What helps a lot in this situation, is learning how to detach from her moodswings.
Note: What is meant by "detaching", is specifically, to detach from her inconsistent behaviour, and moodswings. NOT, "detaching from your relationship". That's the difference from "detached", and "done".
If you can "detach", then it allows you to appreciate and enjoy her positive behaviour, but turn away when she is negative.
Your experience changes from a cycle of "I'm UP!, I'm UP... Ugh, I feel _down_.... UP! ... _down_... " to more of a cycle of,
"Hey, I feel good about our relationship! .. meh... neutral day today (detached) Hey, another good day today! .... neutral...."
A way to get there, is to try to let go of expectations that your wife will "come around". One of the reasons that you feel hurt, is that you "expect" her to treat you nicely,and then you get disappointed and feel rejected, when your expectations are not met.
if you can let go of the expectations, then it stops hurting.
Another way to put it, is to stop investing in your wife, as your sole support of happiness. When she is nice to you.. enjoy, and be happy! When she is not... enjoy and find happiness elsewhere [No, that does NOT mean, "with another woman" !]
remember also, that when you are happy, you are pleasant to be around. and when you are not, you are not pleasant to be around. This sort of thing helps keep us as being appealing to be around, for our spouses.
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
I don't feel I'm reliant on her for me to be happy.
I guess the dilemma I have is that I feel like detaching is giving up. If I detach to the point where I stop trying to expect her to come around, I feel like that will be the point where I move on and stop trying. And I'm pretty sure if I stop trying, it's over because she is certainly not going to try.
If I let go of any expectation that she'll come around and we might get through this, why would I have any motivation to keep trying? I mean, as tempting as it is to just back off and tell her the ball is in her court, seems like when I try to do that she just sees it as more withdraw and more proof I don't care.
detaching isnt "giving up hope". detaching is giving up expectation that it WILL happen, or "Must" happen.
detaching is recognizing, "things arent where I'd like them to be for right now." detaching is recognizing that, when your wife is not committed to your marriage, there is no reasonable expectation that she will act like a maritally committed person.
it's about recognizing, "i cant force her to change. I can just be a good person, and look after myself, while also being open to the possibility of better things with her. (without expecting better things)".
It's also partially coming to terms with the fact that she may choose NOT to reconcile. Recognizing that she is a separate individual from yourself.
It's about choosing to be patient, rather than choosing to pressure.
"detaching" is saying things arent where you'd like them to be, "for now", and you accept that you cant force that to change. (but some day, you would like it if they did change)
"done" is saying things arent were you'd like them to be, and you dont care if they ever get better.
Last edited by Dom R; 10/30/0707:43 PM.
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
detaching isnt "giving up hope". detaching is giving up expectation that it WILL happen, or "Must" happen.
detaching is recognizing, "things arent where I'd like them to be for right now." detaching is recognizing that, when your wife is not committed to your marriage, there is no reasonable expectation that she will act like a maritally committed person.
it's about recognizing, "i cant force her to change. I can just be a good person, and look after myself, while also being open to the possibility of better things with her. (without expecting better things)".
It's also partially coming to terms with the fact that she may choose NOT to reconcile. Recognizing that she is a separate individual from yourself.
It's about choosing to be patient, rather than choosing to pressure.
"detaching" is saying things arent where you'd like them to be, "for now", and you accept that you cant force that to change. (but some day, you would like it if they did change)
"done" is saying things arent were you'd like them to be, and you dont care if they ever get better.
Dom great post about the difference there. Detaching is exceptionally hard to do and something I think each of us must do not to save our marriages but save ourselves. However often we need to make a renewed effort each day to avoiding falling back into old destructive habits.
If we really want to love, we must learn how to forgive. - Mother Theresa
We got into it last night. W opened up her laptop and said "hmmm, just went to website and I was already logged in, haven't logged in today." I haven't snooped in around two months now, haven't cared to and vowed never to again. I got defensive because she was accusing me and I know based on my history she'll never believe me. Then of course she pointed out how my getting defensive was proof I was snooping. Can't win. We settle that peacefully enough, she apologized for making me feel bad but said it's hard for her to trust me. I told her I know, and it's hard for me because I know I lost her trust and there's not much I can do to regain it.
Somehow our future came up and she said something along the lines of "You know this isn't how I wanted things to turn out." I told her I know, but it hurts and it's really hard on me. She said that she does waffle on her decision because she doesn't want to be a failure, but she felt we would either slip into old patterns or just grow to resent each other with our current situation. I told her those weren't the only two options, that we could also try to create something that we could both be happy with. She said something along the lines of she's tried for years and I didn't care.
We pretty much left it there, I was feeling hurt and sad and pretty much shut down. Bad I know. She went to bed ticked off, didn't even say goodnight.
Today I sent her an email apologizing, kept it pretty brief but told her I wanted to use this separation to heal, that I was hurt and felt so unloved and I needed to deal with that before we can assess what may happen in the future. She responded with links to more apartments to check out.
I give. I won't give up hope but I'm done trying, at least for now. She has so much anger and resentment, and we can't get anywhere as long as she holds onto that. She doesn't see me as capable of changing or growing and doesn't believe things could ever be different, she sees no reason to try. I'm done trying to change her mind on any of that.
I'm going to pull away for a while. I need to move on, get over her, get over the resentment and hurt I feel for her giving up on our M. I need some space. I fully accept now that it's over. I'm done fighting it. Maybe at some point in the future she'll get to a place where she can forgive me and is willing to try. Maybe not. I need some me time. I can't go on in the current situation any more.
She sounds pretty sure it's over. That may change. I'm adopting a position of assuming it's over unless she actually tells me differently. I need to start working on my changes and my growth and my own life, for me. Not to prove to her that I'm worth being with. Just do it for me. Someday maybe she'll appreciate that. Or someone else will appreciate it.
Ready to move on. I'll keep the door cracked, but I'm not going to peek through it any more looking for her.
Sounds like you're still confused, "still". or at the very lest, not being honest, either with yourself, or us here.
You contradicted yourself in the same post, and very majorly.
Quote:
I give. I won't give up hope but I'm done trying, at least for now.
vs
Quote:
I fully accept now that it's over. I'm done fighting it.
Truly "accepting that 'it's over'", is equivalent to saying "I give up, it is hopeless".
Saying you "still have hope", at the same time that you say "It's over and I accept that", is self contradictory.
Quote:
I can't go on in the current situation any more. ...I'm adopting a position of assuming it's over unless she actually tells me differently... Just do it for me. ... Ready to move on. ...
you really havent tried very hard. Seems like my old, early post was right on the money: your wife is better off without you, seems like.
So long, and enjoy your life "just for you".
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
She doesn't want me. I recognize that may change in the future but what am I supposed to do in the meantime? Sit around pining for her? Keep trying to convince her?
Doesn't work.
What am I going to do? Give her some space. Take some space for myself. Let go of the dissapointment and resentment I am feeling. Be her friend. Stop expecting anything to happen. Learn to open myself up, heal my family issues and be a kind, loving person. Work on being the person I know I can be, without her.
No more expectations. At some point, maybe she'll change her mind. I can't bank on that. Doesn't mean I'm giving up. It means I'm recognizing that for now, nothing is going to happen. Perhaps saying it's over isn't quite what I mean. What I meant was that for now it's over. For now and the near future, nothing is going to happen. For now I need to get me straightened up as she'll have no reason to reconsider if I don't. That's what I mean by me time. I need to focus on me and stop focusing on trying to show her the person she wants to be. I need to actually work on being that person, for me. Maybe it will do some good, maybe it won't.
I know where I'm headed, I know what I need to do for myself. It's up to her to decide at some point in the future if that's enough for her. I'm not going to shut her out, but I've got to let her go.
We seem to be back in a determined it's over she's done stage. I screwed up, got too close and pushed her away again. I'm struggling with my resentment right now. I feel wounded and unwanted and it's hurting me. I know I need to let go of that. Beyond that what? Keep talking to her? Avoid her? Go dark? I'm stuck. I've accepted that nothing is going to change in the near future. I know that things can change and that in time if I do what I need to do she may change her mind. But I'm stuck because I know I need to do more work on me, get myself ready to be in a successful relationship, and I'm not sure how to handle myself around her while I'm doing that.
I'm also struggling with the custody issue. My only biological child is 20 months. Sometime in the next year W is going to move across the country. She has said that she won't go without the kids and that if I tried to stop her she would fight it and it would get ugly. She won't leave the kids but expects me to. I'm starting to wonder if she's not filing for divorce because she knows that once divorced there is almost no chance that she could take D out of state without my consent.
I'm pretty sure a custody battle would end any chances of a reconciliation for good. But I'll have a big decision to make, hence my feeling of some urgency. The ideal solution would be we get back together. Unlikely to happen in say the next 6 months... Barring that I'd have to decide to stay here and go to court for custody (from my reading, barring any abuse or anything else the courts will side with me) or follow W across the country. I guess I could just fly out there once a month or something but that is not the type of R I want to have with my kids.
The big problem I have with this is that W isn't too stable. She's moving for school and it's quite likely she'll move again when school is done in 3 years or so. She's also told me that she gets restless and ready to move every 5 years or so (would have been nice to know before we married). I wouldn't mind moving next year, I like the area out there and think I could be happy there. But I don't have any desire to spend the next 20 years moving after W to see my kids.
Seems like one of those great no win situations. My options, assuming we don't reconcile by them, will be:
1) file for divorce to protect my custody rights, stay here and fight in court for custody of D, ending any future chance in the process 2) move across the country, keep things nice, as she's maintained she'd always want joint custody a) stay there and then have to fight later if she wants to move again b) keep on moving after her
This is a decision I absolutely don't want to make...
Hello again, been a few weeks I figure it's time for an update.
The good news is, over the past few weeks I've managed to pull myself together. The bad news is, we're not separated.
The key west trip was hard for me, I have a hard time being in situations where we're having fun because I want to be close and can't, and I find it very frustrating. It just leaves me wanting more and feeling unfulfilled. This is something I've worked on and thought through and I think I've got a good grip on it now, learning to not want more, be happy with what I get and be patient.
I'm reminding myself constantly that I made a committment to her and regardless of how she feels I'm sticking to that and doing everything I can to make this marriage work, while at the same time accepting the possibility that it might not happen. That thought has kept me going, even when I feel rejected and unwanted I remind myself of that and it keeps me going and helps me to stop the hurtful trains of thought.
We moved into the apartment last weekend, I was up first. I did manage to kind of tick her off by telling her I was going to shop for some basics like a shower curtain, glasses, etc. She was upset that I was going to pick those things without consulting her since we were sharing the apartment, saying that it seemed thoughtless. Honestly though, given the situation the shower curtain was the last thing on my mind. I apologized and let it slide, if there's one thing I've gotten better at it's the water off the ducks back.
Our goodbye was uneventful. We went shopping during the day to pick out stuff for the apartment, got back home and I said "well, I'm heading out." She said "ok" and didn't make any move to come over or do anything, I didn't want to press it and make a scene so I left. Unexciting yeah.
That night the kids called to talk to me and I chatted with W for a bit. It was oddly quiet at the apartment, no one else around, but I kept myself busy unpacking stuff.
I'm back at the house now, for the time being W is still taking night classes so I'm at the house M-R and she's there F-S. In keeping in line with our most unusual separation ever, tonight was interesting... W sent me a text asking if I could put her running shoes and a few things on the front steps for her. I replied sure, but she was welcome to come in and say hi to the kiddies. She called a few minutes later and said she didn't want to intrude on my time with the kids and I told her it's fine, they'd love to see her anyway. I needed to go grocery shopping anyway, so I suggested she hang out here with the kids while I do that.
So she came, I went shopping and got back. She helped me unpack and we started talking about random stuff. Nice conversation. She ended up staying over an hour. Really pleasant chat, a bit naughty at times (I noticed a big tear in her jeans on her butt and ran my fingers over it and she said something about grabbing her butt. I said no, you have a big tear, I can see your underwear, but am I not allowed to grab your butt. She replied 'it's just been a while, it's like tempting fate. Got a bit naughtier after that...)
Anyway, we hugged 6 times during that hour. Odd... The first hug I leaned in and while hugging her whispered in her ear that she felt really good. She whispered in my ear that I smelled really good (note to self: don't forget to spray pillows with my cologne as a reminder). Hugs are good, I miss those.
After a while she said she probably should go since I still had to get the kids fed, and I told her she was welcome to stay for dinner. She got a look on her face that said she wanted to, but said it was probably best to go. I said ok and smiled. Walked her to the car and gave her another two hugs. She was talking about how hard this was, being away from the kids and being alone in the apartment. It was nice to hear since for several weeks she has shown almost no emotion about it. But I know her well and I know she's been planning and prepping to avoid facing the emotions about it, I know it's hard on her.
At this point I decided to play the confidence card. I gave her a kiss on the forehead and told her "It's all going to be ok." She nodded looking sad. I smiled and said "I'm not done with you yet you know." She looked at me and smiled and said 'ok'. Nice. I was half expecting "I'm done with you" in reply. Note to self, the confidence angle works. I think combined with having no expectations and being incredibly selfless and patient, I'll have a good shot here.
So that's where I'm at. Oh, and she invited me to lunch on friday. I'm not entirely sure how to handle this as a lot of people say a separation should mean as little contact as possible, but I'm in an odd sitch. I really think my best shot here is to keep on talking to her, being there and demonstrating change while respecting her space and making it clear that I'm not giving up and I'm patiently loving her no matter what she does.
I think I've got myself in a good place. Hopefully we can both use the time and space to heal, while maintaining good contact. I just need to make sure I stop wanting more, stick to the patience and no expectations love, keeping confident and happy.
Well time for an update... I could use some advice, feedback, whatever... Things have been interesting lately...
I've been reading Codependent No More and it's been a real eye opener for me. I never considered myself a codependent, I'm not attracted to addicts or needy people and I don't fit the profile of a giving everything people pleaser. But as I read through the descriptions in the book I see a lot of myself. I do give a lot of myself and sacrifice myself for my relationships. I tend to mold myself to my partner, rather than hold on to who I am. I am very reactive and my satisfaction tends to depend on others. I am easily hurt and tend to always see the worst intentions in what may be a harmless comment, and I deal with that by withdrawing and making the other person come to me to prove they care.
In short it's kind of opened my eyes to the bigger picture of my issues and what I need to do. I look at this whole period of the past few months and I see the pattern. W completely controls me, not intentionally, but rather I allow her actions to control me. When we do something together and have a good time, I feel hopeful and happy and determined to work things out. When we argue or she seems to not want me around, I feel hurt and resentful and like I should just give up. That's not a good thing.
Further, I realize throughout most of our M, including the recent few months, I haven't really had the slightest idea of what I want. I fill the roll of housekeeper and parent and husband so she can do what she wants, not taking enough time for myself and maintaining my own life. It's a self destructive process that I think is responsible for our current situation.
After reading this book I'm starting to feel like I have a lot of work to do before I can be in a healthy relationship. As much as it pains me to say it, I see that the advice here is pretty much spot on. I need to focus on myself and my own growth and stop trying to control the outcome of our M. I keep flopping back and forth from thinking that and then wanting W and trying to do things to get her back. That instability is hurting my own grown and is not being true to myself. As many posts here say, I have to realize that I can't control her, I can't control the outcome of this situation and I need to accept that and focus on myself for a bit. It's a hard thing to do though and I'm not entirely sure how to proceed. I can't shake the fear that if I do this she'll just think I'm giving up and withdrawing. I accept on an intellectual level that what she thinks isn't something I can control and no matter what I need to do what is best for me, but emotionally it's harder to accept.
I've also come to the realization that I don't have the slightest idea what it is I really want. I'm all over the place and it's making this so hard. Some days I want her, some days I feel resentful and like giving up. I guess the big dilemma I have is that I feel a marriage is a commitment, a promise to work through the hard times and support each other to grow as individuals. I really want someone who believes in that commitment, who can support me and accept me and believe in me. Yet during all of this, W has given up. She stopped believing in me and hasn't been there when I most need her. Is that something I can accept? I don't have the slightest idea what the answer to that question is.
Anyone have any thoughts on this? How do you resolve the fact that your spouse gave up and has demonstrated they aren't commited to your M? I believe in the commitment I made but I also wander if I'd be happier with someone who shares the same level of commitment I want to make. I don't know what to make of this. I think I have a lot of healing and work to do before I can really answer this question. Right now I'm still too dependent, too attached and too hurt to be able to honestly answer this I think. But I'm curious to hear what others think about this.
