Plank removed from my eye, too late for WAW? 7

[Gone Dancin']

W has been over-sensitive to just about anything I say, like she's looking for reasons to be angry with me. Hmmmmmmm, new goal, don't give her any (not that I have, mind you), but I'll try to be even more calm, cool, and collected when we speak.

Good goal, Heim. I agree with Puddle that communication with W is best served with a good balance of standing your ground while being gentle and reasonable with presenting your needs, pov, etc. When W said she wasn't trying to be a biatch, despite being angry maybe you could respond with something like, "I know you're not. Please just let me finish saying what I need to say first?" I'm sure the latter statement could be made better, but definitely don't say, "but you are being a biatch." I'm sure you can see how that is not productive.

I can remember a few of the heated convos I had with my W following my rafting weekend when I took the kids and didn't tell her where we were going (maybe you remember too?). W had called up to the friend's house my friends and I were meeting at and left a message to call her. When I called her she just unloaded on me (something very uncharacteristic of her during our R/M). She yelled at me for taking the kids and not telling her and giving her the choice of keeping them herself. She continued by telling me how "effing pissed" she was and how her first reaction was to drive up there (4 hrs away) and get the kids. So, what did I do? I just keep validating and empathizing: "you're right, I should have told you," "I'm sorry, you're right," "you're right, I definitely should've given you a choice," "I understand why you're upset," etc. She just kept yelling at me and repeating how mad she was, and finally I said (compassionately), "I really am sorry. I don't know what else to say." Eventually during her rant she began to cry, and finally told me that she was sorry for going off on me, and I told her, "It's okay. I understand and really am sorry. I didn't mean to worry you, hurt your feelings, etc." We then made plans for her to pick them up after we returned in a few days.

Then a few days after returning home, there was a misunderstanding based on something D3 had said regarding how she got a burn on her thumb, and W called me and tore into me again. However, I just listened, validated, and empathized and told her that I was wrong and that D3 had told me something different, and that I would talk with her again. She just kept yelling once again, and I just kept saying you're right and I'm sorry. Once again, she calmed down and again apologized for going off on me. I accepted her apology and empathized with her feeling the way she did about it.

The point here is this. My former self would've gotten extremely defensive and angry during both convos. I would've yelled back, swore back, fed her guilt-trips, etc. I would've been a total ass, but instead I showed understanding and compassion. I actually listened to her and validated her feelings. A month or two later during our big R talk (only one in 9 months), she mentioned that she took notice of that and was surprised at the way I reacted. I know that she took note of my changes in behavior, and I think it has done a lot for the way she chooses to communicate with me, even when upset or angry, today.

I know that, no matter what, our communication will be healthier for the rest of our lives because of my changes, and I also know that W will respect this and appreciate this for the rest of our lives too. I think it will always help to leave the door to reconciliation a wee bit cracked, and that is also an ancillary benefit to my changes. The same needs to go for you. Show her your strength and ability to handle frustrating moments with patience, calmness, understanding, etc, despite the hurt, pain, and anger you've had to deal with as a result of the separation and potential D. You'll feel better about it, and it will help you keep the door cracked too.

Sorry for the long post -- just wanted to drive that point home (and I think I needed to remind myself of it too).

GD

[cliffy]

Heim, GD makes a great point here. If someone is looking for a reason to go off and be bitter, they will find something, regardless of what you do. I think you can control your actions to give as much preventative as possible, but as GD said, validate, etc. I on the other hand am considering the opposite tactic, I traditionally have listened, not raised my voice and kept calm during dissagreements. I don't think I will fly off the handle, but be firm, try to validate, but show a little more of a spine.
Who knows, the longer I am here, the more confused I get somedays.
Thanks for stopping over, I think you are doing a great job all and all. Keep focusing on your and kids needs and your path will show itself.

[Heimlich]

Lissie, GD, and Cliffy,

Thanks. GD, yep, definately remember your conversation with your W on those two things. We're coming from different places though. I rarely communicate with anger and have been doing my best to, as Lissie says, kill her with kindness.

Unfortunately, I'm not the Dali Lama. If we want to play semantics, I didn't call her a B, said she was acting like one. Regardless, I'm pleasant and calm in the vast majority of our conversations -- this goes back a year ago. I've been doing my best to drop the rope of arguing. That said, you can't just censor all of your honest emotion. I generally am calmer, but let my temper slip a bit on this one.

Cliffy, you've been closer to a Saint than most of us here. If you were to go off on your W, even a bit, that'd be a pretty big 180 for you.

Muddling on along,

BD

[Gone Dancin']

If we want to play semantics, I didn't call her a B,

I understand what you're saying, but why play semantics? You let her know that you were FEELING that she was being one, which is just short of calling her one. If you think that this kind of interaction is helpful to your R, gets you closer to your goals, etc, then so be it. I just feel like you can be firm without going where you went with that comment. Don't have to be a Buhddist monk, but you can keep your emotions in check, yes?

I always feel like I'm being too critical of you, Heim. I think you do a lot of good too -- just want to see you at your best 100% of time, you know? My thought is that you can be firm, hold your ground, etc, but do so with some restraint, class, and good etiquette.

That said, you can't just censor all of your honest emotion.

Agreed, but how you allow yourself to respond to your angry emotions is different from censoring it.

Again, you ultimately know what is best for you and your individual sitch, and if this is a 180 or a tunnel that has to this point gone unexplored, then by all means keep going and monitoring the results. We all do have to exhaust every option or strategy so we know that we've tried it all. Who knows, the one tunnel you think would have the least benefit may be the one that turns things around!

GD

[Heimlich]

I always feel like I'm being too critical of you, Heim. I think you do a lot of good too -- just want to see you at your best 100% of time, you know?

Appreciate the thought. Wish I had found this board a year ago. Really, really do.

Anger not a good emotion. Agree on that and I have been MUCH less angry in the last year -- heck, even my girls have commented on it. Working on interacting with her in a much more calm manner. I have, but she keeps expecting me to act like I used to. Then, on the rare occassions I do, it's like, "AHA, I'm justified in leaving." Oh, well. Not sure if I can do perfection.

Anyway, good lord, but I cuss too much. It's almost a reflex to use a naughty word. There was a great line from Deadwood, one of the characters wasn't able to cuss in front of a woman and he said something like "I don't have my full freedom of expression."

All that said, this was a good episode to illustrate that I need to keep a grip on my temper/emotions when she's trying to push my buttons and to be as serene as possible when we're talking. That's where I want to get anyway. Firm as necessary, but not rude or kissing her buttocks (though . . . oh, never mind, won't go there today).

BD

[Heimlich]

have the girls tonight and tomorrow night for work/school schedules and because I'll be gone next week on my week with them.

Forgot to mention that W sent a suggested split for when I get back for which I thanked her for her opinion and agreed that it was a good idea. She also made a snide comment in the email, which I'll include here, with my response:
WIFE: One more thing. I'm trying to be helpful, but it will probably be taken wrong, so am not sure why I am even bothering. I know that your head is muddled with other stuff, but before you get on the road , make sure that your car is serviced. Not sure the last time you took it, but I know that it has been needing more oil b/c I had to add a couple of times. That's all I'm saying.
ME: I may not have expressed this well over the years, but I've always valued your opinion. Thanks for the reminder. For once, you may be surprised, I actually thought of this

I also apologized for accusing her of not caring about Mawmaw, because that wasn't fair and isn't true.

Anyway, took the girls over so that they could carve their pumpkin with W while I went to gym. Picked them up at 8, could tell W was tired. Packed them up and got out of there. Called her on the way to my apt to figure out trick or treating for tomorrow night. She was kind of snippy. She went out of her way to say she wasn't mad or anything but just really tired from running around all day. I just said that's fine, I understand and know how that is, Hope you have a good night's sleep" and hung up. In the years leading up to the A, I most likely would have gotten snippy with her -- really improved in the last year.

Maybe an old dog can learn new tricks, GD!

BD

[SuperDad]

Heim,
Couldn't pass up your Dalai Lama reference.

Sometimes it is necessary to respond strongly, but this can be done without anger. Anger is not necessary. It has no value.

This he says when talking about his response to this Chinese gov't occupying his country and forcing him and his followers into exile. Makes our problems seem small don't it!

I too will not likely achieve Bhudda-hood. However, a lot you can learn from the man! I am currently reading How to Practice- The Way to a Meaningful Life. About a page per day given the weightiness of it!! Check it out, you might like it.

SD

[waw1978]

Happy Halloween. Have fun trick or treating with your girls.

My H is being a donkey...tonight is "his night" so he wants to do the trick or treat thing solo. I am picking her up for a couple hours after school to go see my parents and grandparents. He actually had the nerve to suggest that I take her on another night...who does that?

Oh well. Thinking good thoughts. Not going to call him a donkey to his face...but boy would I like to. I had to restrain myself...I almost said "Another prime example of how much of an A-hole you are and why I left you". but I took a deep breath, gritted my teeth and said FINE, I will have her back to you in plenty of time for your activities.

So I totally understand getting a little heated and saying something off the cuff.

[chicki]

Happy Halloween H & WAW!

Too bad about your WAW..soemday he will relfect and realize what an ass he's been and all will come crashing down..... remember KARMA will eventually catch up!

H thats great about keeping your reaction in check!

Have fun w/ your kids 2nite!

[Heimlich]

I almost said "Another prime example of how much of an A-hole you are and why I left you".

Just a thought, and maybe take out the 'a-hole', but saying something like this might give him food for thought as to why you left. Being nice/understanding/patient has it's place, but a good kick in the pants -- delivered with proper timing -- can do wonders. And take THAT for whatever it's worth.

And yeah, nobody rational/sane does that (gotta validate my fellow DBers!)

Looking forward to tonight. Starting to not really want to be around my W. Not anything she's said or done (well, beyond all of the stuff I've written ), just that she seems to be on edge around me, which has always put me on edge. Going to work on the PMA throughout the day to be in a good mood for tonight. Then, once we divvy up the candy, get the hell out of there.

MMMMMMMMMMMMM, Halloween Candy. Hu-effing-za!

BD