Jeanette - Yes, he has said to everyone that he knows what the OW is like! He told me months ago that the affair was coming to its inevitable conclusion - except that he hadn't thought beyond that, and she doesn't want to let him go.
Yes, he has madona/whore problems and he knows she is a 'whore'.
I told him that I couldn't be his friend because friends treat each other with empathy and compssion.
As for teh 'cry for help/ I don't know if you read Valeria's recent thread, about her h saying 'Why didn't you stop me' A close friend of mine who knows my h very well,said to me that he feels that a bit of my h wants me to march over there, smack the OW in the face and march h home.
All sorts of repressed feelings are bubbling around, and because he has never dealt with his feelings he is like a ship without a compass or rudder, or whateever ships use. And I am not helping him, deliberately. Not because I am am an evil bitch [well I can be!! ] but because I realise that he has to deal with this in order to finally grow up completely.
A friend of mine whose h had a minor MLC said to her 'The age of innocence is over' I feel that is true, and that I have perhaps finally grown up. But I decided to take the highroad,
When I hear the word "friend" these days I cringe. I see and hear this word from so many going through this crisis w/their mlcers it makes me think that they are all reading the same script.
I often wonder just what the word "friend" really means to these mlcers. It certainly can't mean the same thing that it does to us. I know from my own experience that "friend" meant that as soon as I let my guard down, he started asking for things from my home. Stop and think about it, what friend would even dream of doing this, especially after acting like an utter @ss for 6 years, being divorced 2 of those years?
Angelica, I agree w/you. Friends don't treat friends the way that they have been doing. It's really crazy makings.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
As I see it compassion and friendship are two words that have been deleted from the MLCer vocabulary.
My H hasn't an understanding of either word anymore, he doesn't recognise compassion in writing, he sees everything as a direct personal attack, I stopped passing info on about our son who has a disability, because he just didn't respond. Info I thought he would want as a father was disreguarded, inevitably it has been 20 months since he asked about his sons health.
From all the legal correspondance I have recieved he is clearly set out to get every penny he can, no matter who he takes it from, he doesn't seem to realise that he is hurting people.
I so hope the judge sees through all this, in the UK behaviour from either party isn't taken into account, it seems that although H has committed adultery twice, run up loads of debt, taken leave of absence as a father, lied through his back teeth throughout his declaration to the court, none of this will be taken into account, they will only look at his finances as they stand now.
I know this is nothing to do with the thread but it just highlights that the LBS means little to the MLCer, that it is clearly all about them. I'm so glad that he doesn't want sex with me, I would feel totally abused, I don't know how LBS cope with such a situation.
Our legal system, although fair, can leave the LBS without a voice, i just live in hope that one day H remembers and realises what he has done, he has hurt so many, including the OW.
Friendship - I think to the MLCer it means having us in their lives as a sort of 7-11 convenience store [do the still have those in the US] just in case you run out of a quart of milk. Everything, every relationship [including the OW] is for their convenience. They don't think about their having any real obligations or responsbilities for others.
The script: someone very wise said to me recently that evil isn't creative, only God is creative, therefore all evil sticks to a formulaic script . . . .
As we have said many times, it truly is all about them, what they want, feel etc. Unbelievably childish, except that most children are much nicer than this, and can be reasoned with. The MLC is RIGHT and anyone who disagrees is wrong, deluded, stupid, doesn't have their best interests at hear, doesn't 'really' love them; wants to manipulate them . . . [please add to this list]
I had a drop out...even with a young son...he would go months without a word...not even a reply to our son...missed school events...it was bad.. Like another poster...my H was repulsed by me...really did a number on my self esteem which I am still dealing with even though he has been home for over a year and a half....It was all he could do to even hug me... Before he made the decision to return he would not even so much as kiss me on the cheek...I asked for a kiss once and he gave me such a disgusted look...I never asked again...I asked once if he ever got sexual urges (OW lived out of state)...and again that disgusted look....I never asked again... My H's performance did diminish if he drank but it certainly didn't kill his zeal so I don't think OW would have complained...My H said he couldn't have sex without the feelings of emotional attachment...which is why he usually drank when we were still together...without the alcohol he wouldn't have any desire for me at all...and couldn't fake it...he needed the attachment to OW in order to have sex with her...he never co-mingled between us... When things ended with her it was nearly 2 years before he returned to me...when he did the sex was awkward...he had always been a great lover and now was having some issues...ideas had changed too...things are slowly improving but then it was only about 6 months ago that he was able to express verbally his love for me... Was he punishing himself because of the guilt...or is he one of the rare men that just doesn't "have sex"...BTW...his OW moved on quickly...I think she got all of her 3 previous H's by getting pregnant...she was only 32 so she had quite a track record even then! I will never understand any of it...as much as I missed the sex...I am greatful that I didn't have to make a decision to have it or not when he was gone...I was cautious when he returned and insisted on an STD screening before things returned without protection...he complied...
In a weird way, I'm starting to believe his "Pushing" you is perhaps a (I'm going out on a weak limb here" is a cry for help?
I am kind of in agreement on this too. I think that maybe my H may be doing this too. What I don't know is "how" we can help them. It seems like what ever I do it just pushes him to her. Maybe he is wanting help from me to break free from his old life.??
M41 H42 D17 Adopted N14 M22 T24 "Bomb" 4/07 Sep 8/07 Admitted OW 11/07(only to me) OW back 12/4/07 PA on off thru 7/08 says done w/OW but not coming home 8/08 D final 7/09 Moving on and up!!
There are marriages in which sex was an issue pre-MLC and others [like mine] which were tender and passionate [or so I thought].
Even though your H had passion with your right up to the point of departure, it's not the same kind of sex as new, lustful, chemical rush sex ( or the thought of it) with another person. You're comparing apples to candy apples. In time, one is clearly the healthy choice, while the other will rot your teeth out.
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Does anyone here have any views/ideas on why some MLCers still want intimacy and why others are actually repelled by it?
Each MLCer has his/her own "guilt to sex drive ratio; which one wins out is an individual thing.
As far as continuing to have sex with an MLCer, if there is OP involved, it's going to be very difficult to engage sexually without further damaging your own self respect and esteem. Proceed cautiosuly..warning, Will Robinson...danger, danger! As the MLCer begins to clear from the confusion, the sex issue will need to be addressed, and I think each situation is different. The MLCer who wants to be home but is feeling the addictive pull of OW/OM is a different situation from the one who is cake eating, and often times it's too confusing to figure out what's going on.
For my H, it was really important for him to see if he could have a sex life with me...if he could still get aroused. It was not easy and my esteem took another hit. Remember, many of these MLCers are struggling with some form of depression ( and thus the needed extra zing from OP). If they come back, they need to feel hopeful for the future, and that hope needs to transcend the guilt and shame. Getting our sex life to work renewed hope for us. In time, they begin to realize what was lost, and come back with more realistic life expectations and an appreciation for what is. That is the growth process.
RJ thanks so much or your post which was very insightful for me.
I also wonder how many MLCers think that sex is what marriage is all about [during the MLC] . . . mine now thnks it is the most important thing on earth. . . . and that everything else is secondary. Now I know that sex is important, but so are a raft of other things.
In time, they begin to realize what was lost, and come back with more realistic life expectations and an appreciation for what is. That is the growth process.
Thanks for this, I cannot for the life of me see my H waking up EVER - but you give me hope with this ! Thank you !
Angelica - I hope you have a great weak with your kids around you !!!!
Love Cinders xxx
"In the depths of my winter, I realized there is within me an invincible summer" Albert Camus
] but because I realise that he has to deal with this in order to finally grow up completely. 
