I am starting this thread because there seem to be two types of MLCer - those who want to go on being intimate with their spouses, and those, like mine, who claim to be no longer physically attracted if not actually repelled by us.
Further, of those who still want intimacy there is divided opinion [risk of STDs aside] as to whether this 'should' take place. Some seem to feel it is exploitative/unloving/cake-eating and others who feel that it keeps up an important connection. I can see both sides of this argument, but have not had to face it personally.
Now, I am not getting prurient here, I hope, but this does seem to be an important topic. Many of us feel utterly rejected and diminished by the fact that our spouses no longer desire us.
There are marriages in which sex was an issue pre-MLC and others [like mine] which were tender and passionate [or so I thought].
Does anyone here have any views/ideas on why some MLCers still want intimacy and why others are actually repelled by it?
it doesn't seem to correlate with how likely they are to return - those in both camps seem to come back - or not.
Just curious, and thought it might help both newbies and those of us who have been around a while.
It might help those whose spouses are still attracted to deal with their feelings about this.
Together 20 years and had all the sex I could stand for the first ten years, my kids arrived 10 years ago and naturally the sex diminished a little due to us both working and the added responsability of the twins. 4 years ago the sex stopped almost overnight, I had to beg for it and she did all she could do to disuade me. She suddenly had issues with me seeing her naked and would literally run screaming if I saw her. She started to say some very disturbing things during the few times we did have sex, things designed to disgust me and it worked, I walked away in the middle of the act many times. Although I didn't know it there is pretty good proof that there was an OM during part of that time so I guess I'll say when OM #2 entered the picture is when she stopped entirely. I became "disgusting" to her, no kisses, hugs, hand holding, touching or anything even remotly considered intimate.
What my theory is.
The male MLCer is by far the least dangerous of the two, I have a few reasons for thinking this way.
1. Men can have sex with many partners without needing to be "in love" or needing an emotional connection.
2. Men are likely to have performance issues at this stage in life, throw in alcohol and you can have a pretty impotent mix.
3. Men are very likely to "patch things up" it's the way guys are, this patching applies to the M as well as friendships.
I believe the most dangerous MLCer is a female.
1. Although women are capable of a ONS just like a man is they do need a emotional connection to carry on a long term sexual relationship with a partner.
2. Women have been well known to become less inhibited when the alcohol flows.
3. Women are much more likely to hold grudges and when they do finally patch things up it may be many many years down the road.
I believe men are much more likely to be cake eaters because of this and we see it in the threads posted here on a regular basis.
Should the LBS continue sexual relations with a MLCer? It's a tough call but I will say NO! Cake eating is just selfishness on the MLCers part and extremely disrespectful to the LBS. I can see no reason that continuing sexual relations will shorten MLC, on the contrary I can see it prolonging MLC significantly as it gives the MLCer no reason to do the work they need to do on themselves.
I say if there's an OM/OW in the picture then sex should stop until OM/OW is gone.
If a MLCer is going to return they will return sex has nothing to do with it.
I have no advice as I am a LBS that has been having sex with my MLC S. I too would very much like to hear peoples perspective on this. I don't know if it is right or wrong.
I do feel it keeps a connection open, but is it a good connection?
It is disrespectful to the LBS if there is a OW/OM.
It really hurts when the WAS is detached during and after the act.
If they initiate I think maybe it is okay, maybe.
M41 H42 D17 Adopted N14 M22 T24 "Bomb" 4/07 Sep 8/07 Admitted OW 11/07(only to me) OW back 12/4/07 PA on off thru 7/08 says done w/OW but not coming home 8/08 D final 7/09 Moving on and up!!
Angelica, Thank you! This is a fascinating question for me. My H still wants to come spend the night maybe once a week. I am fortunate that even though he has told me that he wants to "date" other women, he hasn't done it, yet.
So, for now, I welcome him happily and even invite him to stay. Sex seems to be the one time when he is at ease in my presence, and that feeling seems to carry over for a little while, afterwards...
However, the couple of friends of mine who know about this are appalled--they call it cake-eating, tell me that now is the time to "take a stand", that he is acting crazy, etc.
H has been fence-sitting for over a year. It took him that long to decide to actually move out, after telling me that was what he wanted to do. I think going to MC actually cornered him into taking a stronger and stronger MLC stand, until he almost had to move out, to save face. Now that he lives in an apartment, he tells me that he is really struggling with depression, and "can't go forward or go back."
At this point, in many ways he is nicer to me than ever, and I credit that to DBing, which I started about 6 months ago. I feel a lot of empathy for how unhappy he is, and understand that it is not within my power to fix it.
However, despite our sex life, I know that he has an eye out for another woman, and feels like 3 decades with me, raising a family, etc. caused him to miss out on something that could be the ticket to happiness...
I am appalled by his logic, and the senseless rejection of his life. He has tried to talk about this to a couple of friends, who have known us both for years, and they told him that what he is saying is nuts...
Anyway, I am very interested in what others have to say on this topic. For now, I want the physical intimacy, but it is hard for me to imagine wanting it if he is having a PA with another woman.
I just keep telling myself to be patient, to find other ways to feel joy or a sense of connection (there are a lot of those), and to wait to see what the future holds, and how I feel about it. However, living in limbo like this sure goes against my natural impulses...
Love making became sex, that was the give away, the pestering before, the coldness afterwards. Like you angelica my H is a total dropout, and I'm grateful in many ways, because to feel so empty after what should be a beautiful connection is just crap.
I know dropouts are few and far between on this board, but reading I realise that I am fortunate in this respect.
Great topic. I think lawless makes an interesting point that sex with an MLC/WAS does nothing to shorten and may actually lenghten MLC.
Sex had become an issue in my M b/c I wanted it and H used it against me. What I find fascinating is right before the bomb, it was great! Even a few times after the bomb. It's down to nothing now. I won't initiate and he doesn't. I don't know about an OW, so if he were to suggest I probably would. I do agree that with an OP in the picture, it isn't helping anything. I refuse to feel cheap (and I would) just for a connection.
I think the decision is personal though and look forward to hearing what others think.
I think extreme drop outs are rare too - but they do exist. I also think they can be the more extreme MLCers [although that is not invariable] BND, Shades, and Hopefloats all had pretty much drop outs and I think there are more [correct me if I am wrong] My h is a dropout, but I have not discouraged this, because I didn't really want this crazy person around.
I think perhaps more would be drop outs if they could - but equally, some are emotionally incapable of that degree of detachedness, and insist on having their MLC all over and around their spouse.
I think that reconnection may be harder for drop outs, because they have been away for so long. I have seen my once in 9 months . . . .and prior to that it was 5 months . . .
I started to post last night but realized what a complicated issue this is. Two things, this is a personal decision that the LBS has to eventually come down to deciding. This was a life-altering decision ....but I realized as a young girl that sex for me was unfullfilling unless there was love. Thankfully, I didn't have to learn this the hard way.
One's personal decision will be based on lots of variables in these cases. And the variables are dependent on their individual MLC'ER. My personal opinion is; you won't know the outcome unless you try it. And you may not ever be truly able to move forward one way or the other w/o knowing. It would be horrible to have regrets.
I attempted to deal with the cake-eating. It made me feel worse and I suffered more hurt. But it also helped me to understand more about him. This helped me to move forward for myself and to not settle for less.
If it had worked, I would be dealing with a different situation. Either way, I know, w/o regrets. I feel as if I made an 'informed' decision. LOL. The hurt was horrible but living with authenticity is a much more peaceful decision.
Mickey - thanks for your post: it was the fact that we have quie a lot of relative newbies here who are struggling with this issue that decided me to start the thread. I also hope that someone with a sex averse MLCer like mine would offer their 2c worth.
My h went from literally not being able to keep his hands off me [which I loved and encouraged] to not being able to touch me in the space of about 2 weeks. I think it is extreme guilt in part, but I also think it is denial - if he admitted he still finds me desirable alll the reasons for the OW become less compelling [in his eyes].
This is such a personal decision. When my H first left and was angry about everything I had done wrong in the M, one of the things he said was that sex became mechanical for us. In the couple of months after we separated, we were intimate quite often. Later he said that if sex could fix things that our M would be great.
Sometimes it has made me feel closer to him, like we still have a connection...I believe he felt it too (but then got angry later). I have also thought that if he is getting it from me, then he would be less likely to get it elsewhere..I know that is stupid but...it doesn't matter because nothing has happened there for awhile now.
I have wondered if "performance" issues could be part of this as well. Seems like I have read some things about that and I do believe that hormones could play a part in a MLC.
