He's on Match.com

[Trixi]

Thankfully, my H is not one to say bad things about me. Not like that, at least. He might complain that I am too introverted or that I protected my daughter too much, or I let my mother bully me, or I am not aggressive enough when I drive--but he generally does not compare me to others,per se. Luckily, also, H doesn't like REALLY thin women. He likes some meat and curves. He really likes Beyonce'.

OT, those are GREAT ideas. I totally see where you are going with that; those are very much out of the box and are more appealing than "go to gym and walk on treadmill" blech.

Dom, you know that I know about MB and all that goes with it. I totally "get" the attractive spouse being a need. And, for the most part, I try to meet that need. It could be that what he really wants is a woman that knows how to do various sports things that he likes to do.

I think that we are not agreeing on whether or not to tell him, with a subtext of whether or not I will commit to a fitness program. After reading what Azhira's H would expect, I feel damn lucky. And also like it is actually "doable" to meet that desire for my H, assuming that *is* his desire.

I called H to talk car with him (turns out we might *not* be any closer to getting a car) and near the end of the convo I said "So, Such and So place tonight to see Friend?" and he said "yeah...I don't know. I don't feel so good right now." (Still hung over from last night.) He then proceeded to tell me what he did and reiterated just how shocked he was to find out it was 3am-he thought it was more like 1am. Anyway, bummer about tonight (maybe). I might just go without him. Phhhlllp.

[Dom R]

hi again OT

(I see that Agent99 posted while i edit, so this post is mostly for OT but there are bits in it for agent99, too. A question in the middle, and the end bit is somewhat relevant too)
Wow.. apologies this is so long... split off azhira reply..

Dom,

You are obsessed with the first typewritten word that came out of 99's H's mouth when he threw together an online profile, probably when he was drunk. Did he say, THE OVERRIDINGLY MOST IMPORTANT THING TO ME IN A WOMAN IS A TIGHT BOD NOT BIGGER THAN SIZE 2???

as an "old timer", i'm guessing that you havent gone through the process of trying online dating. So, you probably dont realize the overall background of that kind of environment.

Any man who wrote what you put, isnt going to get anywhere.
Agent99's husband is selfish, not dumb.

One bit of backpedalling from me, though;

Agent99, did he put it in his actual profile description or was it just the only checkbox he made, as far as body type preferences.
I may have misunderstood what you were saying was in his profile.

it's less of an issue, if he only did the checkbox thing.
Although there is no "slender and toned" on match.com.
There is a box for "slender" and a separate box for "athletic and toned".

Of course one should work on oneself and take a spouse's wishes into account, when one is in a partnership. But, first, 99 and H aren't really in a partnership. Should you change your habits/interests/looks, act like someone you aren't to get someone to go on a date with you? I'd say not if you seek an authentic R.

Chosing whether or not to spend some amount of time a week taking care of your body, shouldnt define "who you are". It's a choice about how you maintain yourself. Just like choices about what you eat, how much you eat, etc.


That being said...

Losing a few pounds may/may not be good for 99. I certainly don't know. ...

I didnt mention losing weight. I suggested a commitment to "get in shape", and be "toned". I dont think that I once suggested that she lose weight.

Due to muscle being "heavy", this may mean that she technically "gains weight". It's not about weight, though.
A woman can be 100 pounds, have no muscle, and look terrible... vs being 120 pounds with good muscle def, and look fabulous. ("super" models, look horrible, in my opinion)

But none of this is here nor there. My point is that 99 needs to focus on HERSELF. She needs to be the best 99 she can be in a way that works for HER. If that doesn't work for her H, then yeah, too bad. But it for sure the best way to attract him back.

You keep making this all about her H and then broadcasting to him that it is all about him is not good for 99 or her M.

Once again: I'm not suggesting that she say she is doing it "all [for] him". I'm suggesting that she acknowlege that it is something of value to her.

Oldtimer, your overall theme of, "look good and feel good for yourself primarily, and if your H doesnt like it, too bad for him", doesnt seem to fit well with long term marriages. That's one reason it is described that people "drift apart".
If each person keeps primary focus on, "well, this works for ME, and if my spouse doesnt like it, then too bad"... then each person does the things they want.. and even if there is no animosity, they do different things, and "drift apart", with no common interests, and nothing tying them together any more.

I guess you (OT) must be lucky, in that what you want coincides most of the time with what your husband currently wants.
But if your husband changed his preferences... you're saying you would divorce him, or let him divorce you, rather than changing yourself to adapt to him?

People change drastically, over even 20 years.
Seems to me, that the only way the commitment of marriage can last through potentially 60+ years, is if there is a commitment to deliberately bring yourself and your spouse together, rather than an attitude of "this is me; this is how I choose to be, to please myself".


Seems like it requires that we make the lifelong effort, to preserve and nurture the bond between us and our spouses. Which means that yes, sometimes we have to change our behaviours, to be more compatible with what our spouse wants.

To use a less controversial example of changing yourself:

Lets say, for example, that your husband decided that he likes to watch soap operas/sitcoms (*cough* and wink to someone )
For some inexplicable reason, he really likes that, to the point that he spends an inordinate amount of time on it.
It's not your favourite thing to do. But you are now faced with the choice of completely ignoring that, and missing out on being with your husband for a significant amount of time every day... or changing yourself, and trying to find some aspect of it to enjoy also, so that you can have a common area of enjoyment.

The caring, nuturing, "support your marriage" thing to do, is the latter. Whereas, doing the former, is a sure-fire way to eventually alienate the two of you over time.

[Dom R]

Reply to Azhira:
[...]Oh...Dom...any chance you are somehow unhappy with your own W looks??

Azhira, there is a big difference, between a husband bugging his wife to "look like a fitness model", vs a husband asking his wife to look after her body better.
Demanding the first, is a huge commitment of time, and effort, and pain to put upon his wife, and isnt particularly beneficial to her either.
Asking the second, isnt that much. particularly IF he is willing to make it some kind of shared fun activity. PLUS, it is beneficial.
Just because the "bug about being a supermodel" is bad, doesnt make ALL issues over appearance/looks bad.

For the record: yes, I was unhappy about it, and bugged my wife about how she looked, for years. I wasnt asking her to "be a fitness model", though. I was asking her to get in shape, both for looks, and health reasons. She was 50-80 pounds overweight, and most of her family is diabetic. I would have been overjoyed if she just lost half of it, and stayed under 200 pounds.

It really hurt me, that she would do virtually NOTHING for me, as far as the way she looked, whether that be body, clothes, or hair. She made some efforts before we got married... but afterwards.. she chopped her hair short, she ate even worse and gained more weight, and she would almost never wear clothes that I liked her to wear. (while at the same time, getting pissy at me, when I didnt dress the way SHE wanted ME to dress)

So... I have some history, of being a husband frustrated with a wife who refuses to take care of her body. It really used to tear at me sometimes, that she even knew it was important to me, and she chose not to do anything, or even deliberately do the opposite sometimes.

She told me that she didnt want to be nagged about it. If I had not done so, but said nothing, ... it still would have bugged me. Perhaps more so, since I would not feel "allowed" to express my unhappiness at the situation.

I havent asked her about that stuff for over 5 years. The physical looks aspect, doesnt matter to me so much any more... it's more just about her health that I worry.
But it's interesting to note, that once she moved out.. THEN she decided to lose some weight, and make her hair nice, and dress nicer...
another slap in the face to me, that it wasnt that she couldnt.. she just didnt think ME important enough to do it. But once she had a different man that interested her.. she did it all.
I still enjoy that she looks much prettier now, and complement her on it. Yet it still hurts sometimes, that she could have done this while we were living together, but chose not to.

Something to think about... because even if you ladies dont see yourselves acting with those motivations... if you arent choosing to look like a way that your man prefers... the man in your life may wonder, "well, if she wont do it for ME... is it just because *I* am not important enough to her to do it?"

[oldtimer]

Wow, I go back to my claim of projection.

Also, I don't find it surprising at all that W took care of herself when she moved out. It was probably the first time in a long time she felt like she could do it for herself rather than as some way to make her "good enough" for you.

And, you are still taking her weight personally and making it about you.

[azhira]

Dom,

So... I have some history, of being a husband frustrated with a wife who refuses to take care of her body.

I think you just stated my point... I agree with OT. I'd have rebelled, as well. Actually, I did...used to eat chocolate cake in front of xh, lol. Stuffed it right in when he'd harp on that "You won't get the super-toned look you want eating that."

What I've been trying to say, gently before, was that, maybe this is one of the reasons your W has distanced herself from you...? I know you've mentioned she seems to have some hidden resentment. I'd bet money this is part of it. Often, all the complaining and little fights are covering up feelings of general unwantedness or feeling unloved.

And yes, I did take his preferences into consideration. Just wasn't going to suddenly change my entire style after we got married. When xh told me he didn't like my shoes the other day...well..I told him not to complain, as we're not married.

99...sorry for the thread hijack...felt you were getting kind of brow-beat with this workout thing. (And I'm all for it, obviously!)

[Dom R]

OT: if your opinion on whether a particular piece of advice I give is good, is based on your viewpoint of my past history and your opinion on whether I am "projecting" or not... then you arent objectively analyzing the advice that I give.

Advice is good or bad, based on whether it fits the person it is given to, not based on the person giving it.

Objectively speaking, the facts show that Agent's husband cares about the way she looks. There is only a murky area about the degree of importance it has to him.

As reguards my wife:
I find your assumptions about her motivations to be somewhat insulting, in that I feel like they are also to some degree "against me".
You did not at all acknowlege anything in my post.

- You did not acknowlege my point about spouses being hurt from a lack of response in personal looks from their spouses.

- You did not acknowlege in any way, the issue that my wife was involved with another man.

It is commonly known, that when people have affairs, they suddenly start paying attention to their looks, get all spruced up, new hairstyles, hit the gym, etc.
Objectively, it would seem to be most likely that what I said was true.

But you ignored all that, and instead a statement, that she probably did it for herself. {now that she was free from Dom}

For the record: I have disconnected myself from her choices about her weight. As I said.. I do *worry* about her. But I no longer view what she does in that area, as something that she does on my account. I dont "take it personally", as to what she does currently.

However, that does not mean that her choices at the time, werent to get back at me. Nor does it mean that it is appropriate and right, for people to completely detach and not care about their spouses' appearance.

I have detached as a self-defense mechanism.
But things could have been different.
She could have chosen to take better care of herself when I asked her to, and then it could have been an incredibly strong, positive thing between us. I would have been so grateful, and happy, that she chose to tackle something that i know is really really difficult for her, on my account.

but now... I have let it go, and detached.
You may see it as something I should have done anyway.
I see it, as a missed opportunity for closeness, and bonding.

Agent99 isnt anywhere near that situation, of it being quite so important for health reasons. and her husband's interest is purely selfish.
That being said... IF her husband is seriously interested in seeing that from her... (i'm not quite so sure any more.. depends on her answer about the checkboxes)... then it could be an opportunity for closeness, and bonding, for them.


"projection", is a phenomenon of casting a false image(metaphorical, or otherwise) of something, over a neutral backdrop. I dont think agent99's "image" is the same as my old one; i acknowlege that her situation, is different from mine. However, I do think there are some similarities.. and I in no way believe that it is a "neutral" situation in that area for them.

[Dom R]

What I've been trying to say, gently before, was that, maybe this is one of the reasons your W has distanced herself from you...?

i absolutely agree. She's said so, and I've acknowleged it.

the sad part is, though.. as I've said.. i havent done that kind of thing for 5 years.

When xh told me he didn't like my shoes the other day...well..I told him not to complain, as we're not married.

aha.. but you implicitly acknowlege that if you WERE still married, then he'd have a say in it!

I'm not saying that husbands have a right to control their wives bodies, btw.
I am saying, that husbands should feel entitled to express thoughts of, "I'd really like it if you would (alter some aspect of their appearance)", and that a caring wife, would then try to do something about it.
If she doesnt, it's his responsability to deal with it still.
But she really should do something about it, if she wants him to be happy about how she looks Or, heck, just to make him happy.

and the same goes for reversed gender "looks" stuff. a husband should choose to look nice and smell nice for his wife. no?

Sigh.. I cant shut up about this, may as well get it out... here's the additional complication...
If a wife complains that she doesnt get compliments from her husband about her looks... and her husband says, "well, the thing is, I dont like how you look right now... but if you changed [....], i think you would look great..."... but she refuses... shouldnt she then basically lose the moral right to complain about getting compliments from her husband in that area? Unless she just wants him to lie, i guess?

PS: sorry Agent... it's.. kinda on topic...

[azhira]

aha.. but you implicitly acknowledge that if you WERE still married, then he'd have a say in it!

Well, that's not what I meant!!

What I was trying to do, was tell him to 'shove it' since I never liked hearing it all.

xh had this dorky habit of wearing socks with sandals. Even thong sandals. It looked stupid. (lol) Did I ever say anything? No. I figured he could wear whatever he wanted. A few times I said, "I'm stealing you for the night, it's my secret, I have xyz planned, so wear something like abc," but that was the most of it.

[azhira]

Ugh, forgot to say, other than "Oooh, you'd look hot in this," I absolutely hated when he'd comment on something I owned. (Without my asking first, anyway.) I never heard him complain about what other women wore. Hated it hated it hated it. It's nice that I can just ignore him and wear whatever I feel like now...

[Trixi]

Hot topic!
Okay- let me first get to the match.com question; he did the 2 check boxes and I think he did something in the body of the text, but I can't go look since it registers me having viewed his profile. It does start out "looking to meet attractive, single woman..." AND, he's been on within the last 24 hours (just making note--this time it's not because I have looked at his profile.)

Roller coaster going back down. He called a little bit ago and said that he didn't know what he wanted to do tonight; that he was feeling poopy. A little banter back and forth and I then I say "Did you accidentally say I could go with you when you didn't mean to?" and he was like "I don't know." *sigh* Convo mutates into him saying that he doesn't know why he is making this so hard on the both of us. I ask if he means globally or just for tonight. He says globally.

He asks "Isn't this hard on you? Don't you wonder why I make this so difficult?"
Me" yes, it is hard. but I think we have two different view points regarding the "difficult" thing."
H "what do you mean?"
Me "I say to myself "He always comes back- why does he have to make this so difficult.""
H..silence while he thinks "Ah. Gotcha. You think about me always coming back." (I happen to know that his view point is that we always end up to the point where he wants to leave; mine is that he always wants to come back.)

He drops that subject, goes back to not knowing what he wants to do tonight. I said "Well, I might want to go anyway." He was quiet and I said "Unless you want to claim custody of going there" and he said "I don't know. I don't know what I want. Let me go to this other thing [a work thing] and see how I feel. I'll call you later." Oh, I forgot--somewhere in there was a bone he threw me regarding us doing something tomorrow night.."maybe".

*sigh* I sense that he is feeling inclined to just pull the plug. And why can't *I* just have the strength to do that?

What kind of wife knowingly says "ok" to her husband going out on random dates?(Of course I did not out and out say "ok", but I am basically saying that by saying nothing else.) What kind of wife KNOWS her husband has a profile on match.com (that he actively checks) and still goes out with him, sleeps with him, etc. I believe he is not having sex elsewhere, but I think that is only because he hasn't found that "special someone" and if he did find that person, I would be dropped without a second thought. I am a good "for now" gal.