Dropping the line vs. differentiation

[MJontheMend]

I wonder why my above post didn't register?

[Lillieperl]

Will somebody please tell me why I spent almost 20 years with that man?

sigh

That is the big question, isn't it? If you figure it out, let us all know.

[Corri]

Mjoj:

Fear.

[Corri]

Mo:

If I remember correctly, splitting was a mutual decision. Where is abandoning coming in? Because he doesn't pay? Were you really expecting him to?

That's like me saying I wasn't expecting my xH to be an ass??????

[MJontheMend]

Maybe it was fear, maybe not. GP was actually yelling at me on the phone today along the lines of "Why do you keep putting yourself down for your part in your marriage? You think you were weak for staying. Listen, all men want to be 15 year old boys sometimes. I sure as h*ll do. But your H wanted to be a 15 year old boy ALL the time. You had to be STRONG not WEAK to put up with that for all those years."

Which is one of the reasons why GP is one of my favorite people at the moment. In addition to being my personal trainer, he is also my "Dr. Phil" except when I call him my "Dr. Phil" he cusses because he hates Dr. Phil but he says he wants to be my Dr.Phil anyways because he wants me to be able to talk to him about anything because he is interested in everything about me. I think he is somewhat enamored of me which is probably a good thing since I discovered this morning that I am probably scent-bonded to him although I still don't feel "in love" which is kind of interesting.

Anyway, I was feeling that I ought to reveal a bit more of myself to him so I told him:

1) You are aware that you are dating a woman whose financial situation is the exact opposite of Oprah Winfrey (somehow Oprah is his prototype for the type of woman he is "supposed" to be dating but absolutely does not want to date). His response was "What are you talking about pretty girl?"

2) I do not agree that you should hold the opinion you hold about businessmen of Middle Eastern descent that you developed due to the fact that some of them burnt down the crack infested apartment buildings you sold to them. I feel we will have other differences along these lines due to our different backgrounds/life experiences etc. His response was just something like "Oh brother.."

[MJontheMend]

I'm kind of continuing my thoughts from the Back Again thread here...

I felt somewhat guilty for wanting out of my marriage because I "knew" that my 2bx suffered from depression/anxiety disorders. I didn't feel free to be angry with him for not paying child support etc. because I was actually worried on one level that he might commit suicide. Obviously, the fact that he checked himself into a mental health facility shortly after our break-up didn't help. So I just had to stuff my feelings of anger. So, now that he is functioning better because he is probably borrowing functioning from the female carpenter with whom he has affiliated himself, I feel more free to be angry. However, I know that it is still fusion and unhealthy so I just need to work my way through it all. Mostly I am angry at myself at the moment because I feel like I should have concentrated on getting my financial house in better order before I went out on my bunkey quest for sexual validation because now I'm going to have to pay the piper and Paul and Peter which means that bunkey needs to go to bed and a very cranky non-sexual lioness needs to wake up and take care of business. So, who is the easiest target to "blame" for my current post-divoce financial mess and my "need" for sexual validation which contributed to it- my PAL2bx, of course. I just wish they sold giant economy size bottles of FUSIONCIDE which you could spray over everything when you end a LTR so you could be REALLY done with it when you're done with it.

On a funny note: I was talking to GP about a business project I'm planning and he was surprised to catch a glimpse of my nonsexual lioness so he started laughing and said "Why are you always acting like such a goody-two-shoes, you're a gangstah, girl. You almost had me fooled."

[MJontheMend]

Maybe the key to finally putting an end to my marital fusion would be to admit to the extent to which I really was a gangstah ending my pathetic marriage with a bullet to the head. Realistically, I KNEW that there was no way my 2bx would agree to the demands or requests I made "or else" the marriage was over. So, I'm the one who finally ended it and my reasons were pretty darn selfish. As far as I could see the man was a complete liability as a marital partner for the remainder of my life. For instance, if I thought of a basic post-kid-relationship-lifestyle fantasy such as saving up money to go to Italy and hike about touring with excitement, sit in cafes and have pleasant conversations and go back to hotel and f*ck like crazy, every single step of achieving this goal would be fraught with difficulty if my H was the partner with whom I wished to achieve it. His tendency towards quitting jobs would make it difficult to save the money. His tendency towards anxiety would make it difficult to get him on a plane to Europe and his behavior on the plane would be most unpleasant. His depression/anxiety would cause him to complain all the time about any difficulty while touring such as lines, unfamiliar facilities, weather etc. etc. and, frankly, I would be embarrassed to be in the company of such a whiner. Of course, it goes without saying that he would just collapse when we got back to the hotel room and the likelihood of hot vacation sex would be sub-minimal.

So, given the well-documented fact, that women naturally semi-consciously "shop" for lifestyle (looks #2)when choosing men, it is clear why I would be "happier" with someone like GP than my 2bx. He gets bonus points for speaking semi-fluent Italian. Actually, GP would be a great asset as a vacation companion because he is naturally slow-moving and happy and I am naturally fast-moving and happy. We would be at the cafe and I would be babbling about what we might do in the afternoon and he would just look at me and smile and say "Are you enjoying your coffee?"

[fearless]

I felt somewhat guilty for wanting out of my marriage because I "knew" that my 2bx suffered from depression/anxiety disorders. I didn't feel free to be angry with him for not paying child support etc. because I was actually worried on one level that he might commit suicide.

See this is the difference. It was actually all of your XH's other horrible traits that you wanted to get away from but the depression is what made you excuse some of behaviors and feel sorry for him. My friend's XH was the opposite. He liked and loved a lot about her but just couldn't stand when she wasn't more energetic. it truly was the depression symptoms that he hated and believed that she could just shake them if she really wanted to.

Mojo, I agree with GP that you were incredibly strong to stay in the marriage as long as you did and especially to stay and still not lose yourself. You took an accidental pregnancy and built the best family you could for your kids. You were responsible for that and should be proud of that fact. Like I've said before, the fact that your kids seem to have little reaction to your marriage ending speaks VOLUMES about how they feel toward their father. My SIL's father left her mom a few years ago and when he told her that he was marrying the OW she said "Dad, what do you expect me to say? I wish you were still with mom." I have to say I cannot imagine your kids feeling anything like that.

I know other have had concerns about GP but I really like him. He is truly a MAN. Maybe he's not the man you'll fall in love with and maybe he's not "perfect" (whatever that means) but what a great example of how a grown-up man acts. He has opinions, he talks openly and honestly to you, he knows how to pick a woman he LIKES, etc.

[MJontheMend]

See this is the difference. It was actually all of your XH's other horrible traits that you wanted to get away from but the depression is what made you excuse some of behaviors and feel sorry for him. My friend's XH was the opposite. He liked and loved a lot about her but just couldn't stand when she wasn't more energetic. it truly was the depression symptoms that he hated and believed that she could just shake them if she really wanted to.

Okay, I get this now based on your post on the other thread. I remember the first time I encouraged my 2bx to get treatment for depression was when he flew into a rage simply because I asked if we could pull over and buy some pumpkins for the kids on the way home from an outing. I think I wanted our family life to be like one of those kid's picture books about the seasons changing and everybody is happy together building a snowman or planting a garden or raking the leaves etc. Sometimes I managed to make it work that way or at least look like it was working that way. When I have momentary thoughts of giving up on men altogether I usually see myself following that romantic vision instead of my Italian holiday romantic vision and just settling down in a cozy Grandma cottage with my books and some white shelves filled with homemade preserves and a bunch of multi-colored chickens.

Like I've said before, the fact that your kids seem to have little reaction to your marriage ending speaks VOLUMES about how they feel toward their father

I would say that they love their father but maybe a bit too much in the way a kid would love an amusing, careless older sibling. They always came to me when they needed whatever, so that hasn't changed except, of course, they need less whatever because they're both pretty independent at this point.

I know other have had concerns about GP but I really like him. He is truly a MAN. Maybe he's not the man you'll fall in love with and maybe he's not "perfect" (whatever that means) but what a great example of how a grown-up man acts. He has opinions, he talks openly and honestly to you, he knows how to pick a woman he LIKES, etc.

Well put. That's how I view him also. The sense I have is that no matter what it won't hurt me to be in a relationship with him. Like if I was hitchhiking and he gave me a ride in his car I could just take a nap and not worry and if either of us wants to stop traveling together he'll make sure to drop me off someplace safe with my little knapsack intact and a better map than I had when I got in his car.

[fearless]

Like if I was hitchhiking and he gave me a ride in his car I could just take a nap and not worry and if either of us wants to stop traveling together he'll make sure to drop me off someplace safe with my little knapsack intact and a better map than I had when I got in his car.

I'm guessing that GP would really like that description of him and how you feel with him

By the way, Mary Oliver's book of poems Thirst showed up on Amazon as a recommendation for me. Because of your tagline quote by Mary Oliver I looked up the book and have it in my cart. Thanks!!!

I really liked this poem:

Heavy

The time
I thought I could not
go any closer to grief
without dying

I went closer,
and I did not die.
Surely God
had His hand in this,

as well as friends,
Still, I was bent,
and my laughter,
as the poet said,

was nowhere to be found.
Then said my friend Daniel
(brave even among lions),
"It's not the weight you carry

but how you carry it--
books, bricks,grief--
it's all in the way
you embrace it, balance it, carry it

when you cannot, and would not,
put it down."
So I went practicing.
Have you noticed?

Have you heard
the laughter
that comes, now and again,
out of my startled mouth?

How I linger
to admire, admire, admire
the things of this world
that are kind,and maybe

also troubled--
roses in the wind,
the sea geese on the steep wave,
a love
to which there is no reply?

God waits.