More complicated than I imagined...

[Disillussioned]

It's all very frustrating. I guess I'm glad she's still here but seeing her go through this withdrawal of the OM is killing me. Trying to lead my own life still but knowing that she's not even close to thinking about being with me is a big challenge to my PMA.

W and I had a discussion last night. She has ended the R with OM, but has been very distant the past few weeks. She told me that she had gone to see a lawyer this past week. Its been a while since the D word has been mentioned, so this was a bit of a surprise. We talked a bunch about what she was feeling and what her expectations were. I told her that part of her hesitation on working on our R was because of feelings she still has for OM. She denied that and said that it was due to her not have the feelings she should have for me. She is saying that she still doesn't have the feelings for me, doesn't think that there is anything that can be done to get the feelings back and doesn't want to in the first place.
I feel your pain about knowing that the W doesn't want to be with you, but I am also somewhat comforted by the fact that she is still in the house and agreeable to counseling and talking.

[Michael Mc C]

Jar - thanks my friend, now that's positive reinforcement.

You know I sit here asking myself if this is worth it, even though things appear to possibly taking an up-turn (regardless of how big/small). The fact that I am venting here and not towards my wife proves that I must feel it is.

[Michael Mc C]

Just overheard a conversation W had with a male friend of hers (she met him in-game, go figure - but apparently no romantic interest there). Went something like this:

"I'll probably work part-time while I finish up my degree. 'M' said I can stay here until the degree is finished so I'll probably do that, although we won't stay together in the marriage. He's a great guy and he knows how important the kids and school are to me"

At first I was taken aback by it (we never really had much of a discussion about that). Overall I guess things aren't any worse off than they have been. Just hearing her say it is what bothered me I think - "won't stay together in the marriage".

Damn, it sucks hearing it.

She also mentioned the ending of the relationship with the OM and said she would no longer pursue that, or anything else. That's good news, hope it sticks (with me being the exception to the "anything" rule of course).

[LL44]

Well, anything like that is going to hurt. I am sorry she said those things. Remember, we can't believe 1/2 of what they say!!

[theoden]

MCC,

Remember, the affair is a distraction/band-aid. Once it's over, she still has to live with herself -- and she's a mess. Often it takes months to get over it and eventually lift from the fog.

But -- once the affair is over, she's able to see YOU more clearly.

When she wakes up, what' she gonna see MCC? A desperate, wounded, bitter, angry man who seems to be drowning?

Detach and become the man you always wanted to be.

Remember detaching from her is for your sanity so that you can focus on your wonderful life and find yourself. Detachment doesn't mean you don't care for her or love her. It simply allows you to unhook yourself from the drama, stop reacting to her crazymaking, and gives you the chance to develop/grow/change. And it gives her the chance to breathe and the opportunity to see you blossom and grow.

By the way -- many women still think and say they want a divorce after they break it off with OM. Be the rock. There's an old saying in DB, "Don't belive anything they say and only half of what they do."

Look up the thread of Frank_D. When his wife gave up the OM, she was still gung-ho on divorce. Frank just rose the task of become the man he needed to be. That man eventually began to send signals that he was moving on, and his wife eventually realized that she was losing a great guy.

--Theoden

[theoden]

MCC,

OK...by the way, the withdrawal from OM is normal. Let her grieve.

Her seeming lack of remorse will also kill you...it can take 1-9 months for remorse to kick in. Don't impose the guilt on her, because she'll reject even her own natural guilt as your "judgement". Let her process it herself.

Patience man.

And while you wait -- start having some fun in your life.

When she exits the la-la land of make believe and fog of the affair lifts: what will she see in you? This is the crucial question. Many people blow their chance to make a smooth path for their spouses return.

--Theoden

[Michael Mc C]

W just came home from doctor's appointment and we had some coffee together. I could tell something was on her mind, something big. I let it be though, simply saying that she looked troubled, asing how the doctor's appointment went. It went fine.

A few minutes into the small talk she told me: "I think it's time for me to move out. I don't want to but I don't see any other choice."

I asked her why she felt she had to leave. Her response: "The longer I stay here the longer you will have hope. I want it to end, I can't go back, I have no hope."

I simply said "I will have hope until it's dead inside of me."

She went on about how our marriage was unfulfilling and she won't settle for that. She has given up all hope and desire to try to fix it. If she stays here she will feel like she's taking advantage of me while finishing her degree. She doesn't want to do that to me (which I appreciate).

So she's planning on moving in with her mother.

Another crossroad. Do I let her go without trying to find a way to accomodate her living here with me and the kids or do we work on a solution that allows her to stay? I'm honestly torn. I agree, I don't look forward to supporting her for the next 2 years while she gets herself to point where she can make it on her own. Kind of like training my executioner.

But I love her. I want her to be happy. I want the kids to see their mother as often as possible. If she stays, my hope will be bolstered but so will my disappointment if things don't improve.

If she goes, she'll have a chance to miss me, if possible. She'll be able to eventually see what it was about being with me that was so desirable instead of looking at me through her still-clouded eyes.

Decisions, decisions. In the end it is HER decision. However I can have a hand in helping her come to that decision. Should I even try? I could tell her that "my hope" is a personal choice and that she shouldn't be concerned with it. That I would be fully responsible for any additional disappointment/hurt that happens. However, by her own admission, the longer she's here, the more resentment she's going to build just because she's here. She feels trapped here and that is just no good. It's bad enough she has no hope/desire, if she resents the situation anymore than she already does, some real damage may occur.

[hopeforfuture]

MCC,
By the way -- many women still think and say they want a divorce after they break it off with OM. Be the rock. There's an old saying in DB, "Don't belive anything they say and only half of what they do."

Look up the thread of Frank_D. When his wife gave up the OM, she was still gung-ho on divorce. Frank just rose the task of become the man he needed to be. That man eventually began to send signals that he was moving on, and his wife eventually realized that she was losing a great guy.
--Theoden

Theoden,
You always have such wonderful advice. In my sitch, the OM and my W broke off contact about a month ago. There were several conversations with her where she claimed to be fully invested in repairing our R. Just the other night, she mentioned that she had gone to a lawyer last week and still considered D to be the only solution at this point. She sees us getting through the holidays together and thats it.

Time is on my side. Must detach. Must not hear or believe the negative things she is saying. Must get it through my thick head that she needs time to get through the haze.

[hopeforfuture]

A few minutes into the small talk she told me: "I think it's time for me to move out. I don't want to but I don't see any other choice."

I asked her why she felt she had to leave. Her response: "The longer I stay here the longer you will have hope. I want it to end, I can't go back, I have no hope."

My W is having similar feelings right now, but hasn't suggested she move out.

Detach MCC. If she needs to move out, I don't think you can or should stop her. I even think in a warped sense that this is somewhat noble on her part. That she feels so strongly about this that she is willing go to that extent. If it happens you need stay strong and focus on the family. I think it would only be a matter of time before she realizes all of the good things she'll be losing.

[Michael Mc C]

It's been a while since I said it, but thanks to everyone for their insight and suggestions.

One thought about her leaving is that it would make detaching easier. It would also allow me to go dark which I think may be necessary, at least at some point in the near future.

I know she simply needs time to get over the OM thing and then to pick up HER pieces to see how everything fits together.

That's not to say that she will see the "error of her ways". There are no guarantees that this marriage can be saved - well, I'm sure it can be but ultimately it will take the both of us to succeed.

I don't want to talk her out of moving but I can provide a compelling case for her to stay here, albeit sleeping in a different room. That may not be enough. I also don't want to sabotage any chances we may have by having her stay only to find out one day that we can't stand one another.

As for supporting her while she finishes the degree, I would have been doing this anyway. I work, she does not. The only difference is that at this point, she has no interest in staying in the marriage. It could be considered taking advantage of me but, with the knowledge of her 2 year plan anyway, the only difference is that I now know about it.

So the questions are:

1) Do I swallow my pride and offer to let her stay and together come up with some kind of a plan to give each other the space we need? Am I allowing myself to be walked over again? Will she lose more respect for me because I'm doing this? Probably questions only I or she could answer.

2) Do I simply accept and support her decision to leave? She has tried to put the responsibility on me by saying that the longer she stays, the longer I will remain hopeful. In other words "because you can't accept that our marriage is over, I have to leave." (she had a nicer way of saying it of course).

Or do we simply put both options on the table and let her choose what works best for her, and maybe for all of us? I've already told her that I will be hopeful until it's dead inside of me. Regardless of where she's living, that hope will not diminish quickly. Do I restate that or just let it be?

She wants to be here as much as possible and asked if I would have any problem with her being here in the afternoons (after picking up the kids and before I get off work). I told her I don't have a problem with her being here now...

As much as I want to get a clear idea of what I want her to do, I know it's not my choice. I have to be ready to accept whatever she decides.

Theo - any idea where I can find the thread for Frank_D? I've tried the archives but haven't had any luck yet.